TG 3 and their constant Whining (From a TG11 perspective)

[Mad Pierre]

well T93, times change, the old tg3 boys are not streamed into ad,af,tc for whatever reason, I did the SAC Tech course which eliminated the old mech/tech system and dare i say, the DE system.

There was a reason DEs had to have Maths & Physics + 2 other decent O levels, same reason the SAC Mechs had to have 5 - 7 years experience before getting a fitters course. We were further streamed out to TC, AD, AF because the equipment was vastly different and hard to work on. BTEC gave us those certs in electronic engineering for a reason too.

The only reason I can think of that the RAF consider a couple of months upgrade course as suffiicient to convert a signals and filing qualified admin clerk into an electronics engineer is that the equipment is no longer as difficult to install and maintain. No great surprise as it's been getting easier ever since solid state devices were introduced. I'm guessing you guys don't do valve theory anymore?

As for licking soldering irons, how else do you determine when it's ready to stick into the guts of a Marconi Self Tune, they're more complicated than hair straighteners you know. DT_Xtremez_17:

 

[Studley dangerfcuk]

Steady on MP,

[QUOTEThere was a reason DEs had to have Maths & Physics + 2 other decent O levels, same reason the SAC Mechs had to have 5 - 7 years experience before getting a fitters course. We were further streamed out to TC, AD, AF because the equipment was vastly different and hard to work on. BTEC gave us those certs in electronic engineering for a reason too.

The only reason I can think of that the RAF consider a couple of months upgrade course as suffiicient to convert a signals and filing qualified admin clerk into an electronics engineer is that the equipment is no longer as difficult to install and maintain. No great surprise as it's been getting easier ever since solid state devices were introduced. I'm guessing you guys don't do valve theory anymore?

As for licking soldering irons, how else do you determine when it's ready to stick into the guts of a Marconi Self Tune, they're more complicated than hair straighteners you know.
][/QUOTE]

WRONG

They are NOT electronics engineers, they are IM's and that is not me being degrading to IM's.

They are there for a second/safety person or meter readings. They will not be left on their own in an eng enviroment.

There is alot of them out there that I would want on my shift in an Eng section.


BTW, I have done the valve theory.

Studley ::

 

[Mad Pierre]

Steady on MP,

They are not electronics engineers, they are IM's and that is not me being degrading to IM's.

They are there for a second/safety person or meter readings. They will not be left on their own in an eng enviroment.

There is alot of them out there that I would want on my shift in an Eng section.


BTW, I have done the valve theory.

Studley ::

Thanks for straightening me out Studley DT_Xtremez_14: ,
by the way the Beam Tetrode was always my favourite. I don't know whether it was the extra heating element or just the simple fact that it sounded so cool. DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Cashew]

Im sure when this thread was started it asked for a TG11 perspective! Then again its not unusual for our TG3 brothers to stick their nose in when its not wanted!

In my humble opinion there is far too much whining going on from both sides of the fence. We need to shut up and get on with it, and attempt to make TG 4 work! If the whiners amongst you want to PVR and P*ss Off in to civie street then it might make it easier for the men and women that are giving it a chance to work!!

Enough said, I now await the usual retort that will come from this sort of post!Usually rom the guys and gals that have only been in 5 mins, and think that they know it all!::/:

 

[T93]

response.

response.

Ok here goes,

CZ: Im not really sure what you are referring to. I have no problem with the amalgamation of comms trades into one, nor do i have any issues with guys bettering themselves due to this. I also have no knowledge of the new SAC T structure. In fact im not interested, but dont try to make comparisons to a DE entry...because there is none, and yes we were streamed because of the huge differences in equipment & fault finding techniques were so different etc ( i could go on) fyi: I am a BSc elect/electronic engineer, so i would like to think im fairly qualified to answer in regards to comms topics
As for the previous entry: I left in 95, since then ive worked all over the world on GSM and now 3g networks....no bleating from my side.

 

[Mad Pierre]

Im sure when this thread was started it asked for a TG11 perspective! Then again its not unusual for our TG3 brothers to stick their nose in when its not wanted!

In my humble opinion there is far too much whining going on from both sides of the fence. We need to shut up and get on with it, and attempt to make TG 4 work! If the whiners amongst you want to PVR and P*ss Off in to civie street then it might make it easier for the men and women that are giving it a chance to work!!

Enough said, I now await the usual retort that will come from this sort of post!Usually rom the guys and gals that have only been in 5 mins, and think that they know it all!::/:

If you start a thread called "TG3 and their constant whining" I think the least you can expect is a little whining from TG3.

One things for sure, you won't get any "usual retorts" from TG3s who have only been in 5 minutes, the trade is so old most of us PVRd just after the Battle of Britain. DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[The Masked Geek]

If you start a thread called "TG3 and their constant whining" I think the least you can expect is a little whining from TG3.

One things for sure, you won't get any "usual retorts" from TG3s who have only been in 5 minutes, the trade is so old most of us PVRd just after the Battle of Britain. DT_Xtremez_30:

To be fair, I don't think they'd grasp the meaning of half our gripes. DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

Suck it up

Suck it up

We do understand your gripes and we did feel sorry for you all when your empires started to crumble, for years we were at the end of your peanut jokes and placing your pay slips next to ours for a good laugh.

The truth is as mentioned before comms has moved so much we were all in danger of being left behind, our Trade sponsor was alot more proactive and we got the better deal.

I don't know any EX TG11 pers that thinks that they are a tech or equivilant, you lot really need to move on and embrace this trade before they pass you over to SERCO or the equivilant.

I spent many years on the wing watching the Tech's carry out minor miracles on kit from the days of the Somme, but that has passed and those bits of kit are passed on to the civvy companies for depth 2/3/4 maintenance, that dosn't leave you with alot to do.
I'm not daft though i can easily see in time us having the same done to us with ATLAS on the horizon, we will carry on enjoying our high pay until they take it off us.

I'm sure this will create alot of negative views but i'm sure alot will agree, to be honest i'm not bothered.

 

[MACC LAD]

We do understand your gripes and we did feel sorry for you all when your empires started to crumble, for years we were at the end of your peanut jokes and placing your pay slips next to ours for a good laugh.

The truth is as mentioned before comms has moved so much we were all in danger of being left behind, our Trade sponsor was alot more proactive and we got the better deal.

I don't know any EX TG11 pers that thinks that they are a tech or equivilant, you lot really need to move on and embrace this trade before they pass you over to SERCO or the equivilant.

I spent many years on the wing watching the Tech's carry out minor miracles on kit from the days of the Somme, but that has passed and those bits of kit are passed on to the civvy companies for depth 2/3/4 maintenance, that dosn't leave you with alot to do.
I'm not daft though i can easily see in time us having the same done to us with ATLAS on the horizon, we will carry on enjoying our high pay until they take it off us.

I'm sure this will create alot of negative views but i'm sure alot will agree, to be honest i'm not bothered.

well said big man!!!

 

[Mug?]

I agree scarecrow

I agree scarecrow

well said big man!!!

Well I see one of you has got a brain, in fact I know a lot of you do. I also know many are up to the job, if they can be bothered.

My gripe has never been with the guys on the ground, (except for the payslip waving bit!)
Our job is easier now and that is more of our gripe, we want to do the techie stuff! we want to hit stuff with hammers and take stuff apart and make things from all the bits that we can never get back together.
IT was seen as the easy option, give you all IT I say and leave us all alone.

But remember one thing, with no promotions in our side, WE ARE ALL COMMING TO GET YOU NOW...!!!!!.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

I spent many years on the wing watching the Tech's carry out minor miracles on kit from the days of the Somme, but that has passed and those bits of kit are passed on to the civvy companies for depth 2/3/4 maintenance, that dosn't leave you with alot to do.
I'm not daft though i can easily see in time us having the same done to us with ATLAS on the horizon, we will carry on enjoying our high pay until they take it off us.

I'm sure this will create alot of negative views but i'm sure alot will agree, to be honest i'm not bothered.

But can a Peanut take a U/S piece of kit and the its replacement which is has arrived in theatre U/S, reverse engineer a system they have not been trained on and get a one working box out of two U/S items the same day when the other option being an god know how long wait. In their Fooking Dreams can they.

I've had to do it on all of the OOA's I've done in my time on kit that was 4th line repair only. Ops are screaming for the kit, OC Eng approves a repair beyond normal depth of maintenance, I Fix it cause I'm able to. Last time I did it, the item was a flat screen monitor. Normal procedure for them is if U/S, bin it and get a new one, in this case the new one was U/S on fit.

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

Oh wait one second while i shine up a medal for you......

That was your job mate, and i'm sure with the right training many of us could do that JUST LIKE YOU, the arrogance in that reply says it all.

You have to get it out of your head that we are dumb arse peanuts, many of us have more civvy qualifications than you, we were just sold a **** trade(as it was) by the CIO, i have no doubt there are some proper nuckle draggers in our trade, as in yours.

I could sit here typing marvellous war stories that my colleague carried out with kit in the back of Wolfs, but i won't bother you with those.

Truth is sunshine you are very sour, move on like the rest of your trade, i have the up most respect for your trade and what you have done, but arrogant posts like yours just make knocking you down easier,

LIVE WITH IT

 

[mad_collie]

Once again a thread has degenerated into 'TG3/11 are better, ne ne ne neh ne'.

Get a grip lads, the idea of the peanuts part of the forum is for them to have a bit of a bitch, the same as the techs part.

If all threads go this way I'll merge them into one big thread & move the lot into fight club. Nothing positive is coming from any of it.DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

Not being funny mate just let us get it off our chest, it'll go some place in a minuteDT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Mad Pierre]

Oh wait one second while i shine up a medal for you......

That was your job mate, and i'm sure with the right training many of us could do that JUST LIKE YOU, the arrogance in that reply says it all.

Absolutely spot on mate. DT_Xtremez_28:

With the right training. DT_Xtremez_23:

In my day the right training was to qualify at Maths, Physics + 2 others at GCE O Level (GCSE) pass the RAF CIO DE Technicians exams and to study Basic Maths, Electricity, Electronics and Telecomms engineering principles for 57 weeks at RAF Locking, or alternatively pass the RAF CIO Mechanics exams, study the basic L Mech course for 17 weeks at RAF Locking, gain further OJT in the field for 5 to 7 years then return and study the further training course for another 57 weeks at RAF Locking.

Yup that's all it took, the right training. DT_Xtremez_29:

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

I'm not questioning that, and you have undoubtedly have the training and the knowledge and the experience. I have the upmost respect for you all.

In a few years down the road when some of the dead wood has floated away there will be only one stream in this trade group, i'm sure stories such as

"In my day the right training was to qualify at Maths, Physics + 2 others at GCE O Level (GCSE) pass the RAF CIO DE Technicians exams and to study Basic Maths, Electricity, Electronics and Telecomms engineering principles for 57 weeks at RAF Locking, or alternatively pass the RAF CIO Mechanics exams, study the basic L Mech course for 17 weeks at RAF Locking, gain further OJT in the field for 5 to 7 years then return and study the further training course for another 57 weeks at RAF Locking"

Will be spoken and discussed along side the V bombers, as that is where they belong in the past. We need to move on and perhaps (in all respect) people like you that feel this strongly should get a high paid job in civvy street.

DT_Xtremez_23:

 

[T93]

off topic

off topic

I'm not questioning that, and you have undoubtedly have the training and the knowledge and the experience. I have the upmost respect for you all.

In a few years down the road when some of the dead wood has floated away there will be only one stream in this trade group, i'm sure stories such as

"In my day the right training was to qualify at Maths, Physics + 2 others at GCE O Level (GCSE) pass the RAF CIO DE Technicians exams and to study Basic Maths, Electricity, Electronics and Telecomms engineering principles for 57 weeks at RAF Locking, or alternatively pass the RAF CIO Mechanics exams, study the basic L Mech course for 17 weeks at RAF Locking, gain further OJT in the field for 5 to 7 years then return and study the further training course for another 57 weeks at RAF Locking"

Will be spoken and discussed along side the V bombers, as that is where they belong in the past. We need to move on and perhaps (in all respect) people like you that feel this strongly should get a high paid job in civvy street.

DT_Xtremez_23:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The following is "slightly"DT_Xtremez_28: off topic, but ive never really had any gripes against the slightly salted bunch....A lot though with the AC related eng trades. Who believe by virtue that they work on A/C that they are vastly superior in intelligence than the other eng related trades in the RAF...sorry boys not so...oh and the lack of postings for the JAFAD techs.

Not a rant, and please do go back to the current theme. No flak please.DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

I agree with you, all though it is off topic slightly i beleave alot of the TG3's biggest gripe is with the training and some not all beleave they really are superior people both in work and dare i say out side because of the tech badge. With that under threat they have hit out and feel insecure, with good reason.

 

[T93]

I agree with you, all though it is off topic slightly i beleave alot of the TG3's biggest gripe is with the training and some not all beleave they really are superior people both in work and dare i say out side because of the tech badge. With that under threat they have hit out and feel insecure, with good reason.

Hi PS,

True. However you get that over the whole spectrum of life (no pun intended, actually there was hehe)
As always. The changes have been implemented due to the "adminisphere" who just sit back and let the infighting commence.

 

[wolfy]

As an ex TG3 I have watched this thread for a while. The reality is as I see it, is that both trades have changed a hell of a lot. This has been through the rapid advances in technology and like it or not the trades would never be the same again.

Personally i think the RAF should have created an IT trade group years ago (although it would most likely have been contracted out by now). However the merge has probably kept jobs in the RAF a little longer. Which has to be good, just be thankful for the time you've had in your trades and move on and make TG4 work before the powers that be do away with TG4 too