TG1 Retention again

[muttywhitedog]

Based on my own area (which I think pays slightly less than MOD CS):

Professional II would get somewhere around £42-45k

Professional I would get somewhere around £50-53k

I dont know what the RAF salaries are any more.

@Spearmint might have the exact starting salaries for MOD SEOs and G7s.

 

[Spearmint]

Based on my own area (which I think pays slightly less than MOD CS):

Professional II would get somewhere around £42-45k

Professional I would get somewhere around £50-53k

I dont know what the RAF salaries are any more.

@Spearmint might have the exact starting salaries for MOD SEOs and G7s.

I'm an SEO / Professional Level 2 in DE&S. Currently earning £46.5k but that only includes the 3.25% uplift and not the extra 1.75% uplift they had to find to make a round 5% based on the recent pay negotiations.

Expecting to be paid £47.7k from Nov 24 when it all settles down (37hr working week) and if you are a good lad (Grade 2 and above for your annual assessment) you get an ok bonus typically around £2k.

Professional Level 1 Pay (G7) is currently ranging £56k - 59k not including the uplift IIRC. Not seen an advert for a while on that grade to be fair but a load have opened up due to a lot of the current P1's being forced to become 'Work Coaches' and they earn slightly more at both P2/P1 as they needed to attract people into the role. A poisoned chalice at the moment and nothing more than a glorified Flight Sergeant on a Flying Sqn making sure their lads are SQEP, employed correctly and also reported on fairly.

 

[Rigga]

There are loads of jobs out there. You have to get on your bike to do them mind. Since leaving the RAF 16 years ago, I must have spent half that time working away from home commuting and living away.

I left the RAF in 1999 as a Sgt rigger with no academic qualifications since leaving school. Admittedly I had prepared to leave and got my CAA LWTR A&C for Turbine Helicopters and Pressurised Aeroplanes before I left (you could do that then) and I joined a small airline in Norfolk as a QA engineer. Because I moved so many times in the RAF 'we' decided to bolt the family to the village and stay there come what may.
At work, I soon found that no-one was talking to my shoulder badges anymore and that what I said was always at least considered and often taken up for action. Within a couple of years I was a project lead on exporting aircraft and accepting a fleet of 15 aircraft. - Then I found out what those jobs were worth - and left that company for a 45% pay rise. Since then I have spent the majority of my civil aviation working life working away from home as far away as Cheltenham and Manchester. Since 2004 I have had just two jobs working locally (from which I could mow the lawns on a Wednesday evening if I wished to) for a total of 6 years. That means more than 14 years of working away from home - leaving for work on a Sunday evening and coming back on a Friday.
During that time my wages grew to Group Captain levels and at two places I was a senior director (hard work!) of some well known companies.
My point is that, on the outside, you ex-RAF people can soar if you want to or sit back and mock if thats your bag. But - it's up to YOU to get along, not up some promotion board to allow to to progress. Yes, there are some absolute tw@ts as managers but you don't have to suffer them. If you don't like where you end up - you can look for somewhere that might appreciate you more (and for more dosh too).
Good luck to you whatever you decide.

PS - An SEO @47K was less than half my wages.

 

[Cat Techie]

I left the RAF in 1999 as a Sgt rigger with no academic qualifications since leaving school. Admittedly I had prepared to leave and got my CAA LWTR A&C for Turbine Helicopters and Pressurised Aeroplanes before I left (you could do that then) and I joined a small airline in Norfolk as a QA engineer. Because I moved so many times in the RAF 'we' decided to bolt the family to the village and stay there come what may.
At work, I soon found that no-one was talking to my shoulder badges anymore and that what I said was always at least considered and often taken up for action. Within a couple of years I was a project lead on exporting aircraft and accepting a fleet of 15 aircraft. - Then I found out what those jobs were worth - and left that company for a 45% pay rise. Since then I have spent the majority of my civil aviation working life working away from home as far away as Cheltenham and Manchester. Since 2004 I have had just two jobs working locally (from which I could mow the lawns on a Wednesday evening if I wished to) for a total of 6 years. That means more than 14 years of working away from home - leaving for work on a Sunday evening and coming back on a Friday.
During that time my wages grew to Group Captain levels and at two places I was a senior director (hard work!) of some well known companies.
My point is that, on the outside, you ex-RAF people can soar if you want to or sit back and mock if thats your bag. But - it's up to YOU to get along, not up some promotion board to allow to to progress. Yes, there are some absolute tw@ts as managers but you don't have to suffer them. If you don't like where you end up - you can look for somewhere that might appreciate you more (and for more dosh too).
Good luck to you whatever you decide.

PS - An SEO @47K was less than half my wages.

Saw how hard you worked in one of them. See why you had so.much time for the Goat

 

[Spearmint]

PS - An SEO @47K was less than half my wages.

Which is absolutely fine and it comes down to what you want out of life. I'm not paid what I should be, the civil service is just as underpaid as the armed forces especially when it comes to the MOD and the risk we hold - we are some 30% behind what we should be had our wages kept up with inflation after 2008.

That said, the work/life balance is exceptional, I have a very nice second pension building up, doing an MSc for nothing and I'm home every night with the family. I can easily leave for more money and I get tapped up often but I know I'd then have to give up more for that higher wage.

 

[ERT]

Which is absolutely fine and it comes down to what you want out of life. I'm not paid what I should be, the civil service is just as underpaid as the armed forces especially when it comes to the MOD and the risk we hold - we are some 30% behind what we should be had our wages kept up with inflation after 2008.

That said, the work/life balance is exceptional, I have a very nice second pension building up, doing an MSc for nothing and I'm home every night with the family. I can easily leave for more money and I get tapped up often but I know I'd then have to give up more for that higher wage.

What is the cost to live away / commute monthly? How much is that time away from your family worth?

For clarity...

£47k income =

• £37,359.60 - annual
• £ 3,113.31 - monthly

£94k income =

1. £65,077.40 - annual
2. £ 5,423.11 - monthly
   

 

[Spearmint]

What is the cost to live away / commute monthly? How much is that time away from your family worth?

For clarity...

£47k income =

• £37,359.60 - annual
• £ 3,113.31 - monthly

£94k income =

1. £65,077.40 - annual
2. £ 5,423.11 - monthly
   

My commute costs are approx £50 of Diesel per month for 1 or 2 trips into the office per week. If I go anywhere else then (advertised as reasonable - they haven't been adjusted in a while) costs are met from the public purse.

 

[ERT]

My commute costs are approx £50 of Diesel per month for 1 or 2 trips into the office per week. If I go anywhere else then (advertised as reasonable - they haven't been adjusted in a while) costs are met from the public purse.

Sorry buddy, responded to the wrong thread. It should have been to Rigga and my post was to indicate the financial differences in the monthly pay between working away and remaining at home.

 

[Cat Techie]

Sorry buddy, responded to the wrong thread. It should have been to Rigga and my post was to indicate the financial differences in the monthly pay between working away and remaining at home.

Depends on accommodation. Pre Covid, my airline pulled out of Norwich and covid killed any employment down South bar relocating to an offer of employment with the base being set up north. £8K was maximum company would pay for relocation. For two years on a week on and off basis I would put a tank of petrol in the car from the quid to the almost 2 quid per litre and pay for a room at 350 quid a month. That worked out at about 7000 pounds without sundries of extra food that I would not have brought. Moved up north as it wasn't cost effective and missus was home alone for 6 months a year. The fact my pay was 33% less than now didn't help.

If renting south, getting a room under 600 or 700 quid a month if about as cheap as one expects. Mate of mine works for BACF at LCY. His room is over 12K a year. He runs a car in London. Commutes to his home in Devon by train on and off shift! He is burning 17K out of his 70K wage.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Depends on accommodation. Pre Covid, my airline pulled out of Norwich and covid killed any employment down South bar relocating to an offer of employment with the base being set up north. £8K was maximum company would pay for relocation. For two years on a week on and off basis I would put a tank of petrol in the car from the quid to the almost 2 quid per litre and pay for a room at 350 quid a month. That worked out at about 7000 pounds without sundries of extra food that I would not have brought. Moved up north as it wasn't cost effective and missus was home alone for 6 months a year. The fact my pay was 33% less than now didn't help.

If renting south, getting a room under 600 or 700 quid a month if about as cheap as one expects. Mate of mine works for BACF at LCY. His room is over 12K a year. He runs a car in London. Commutes to his home in Devon by train on and off shift! He is burning 17K out of his 70K wage.

All the more reason to put a tax return in.

 

[Cat Techie]

All the more reason to put a tax return in.

PAYE. Not a contractor so cannot claim for what I am not entitled to in contractor tax laws. I put tax returns in on my PAYE pension and wages because HMRC are incompetent.

 

[Talk Wrench]

PAYE. Not a contractor so cannot claim for what I am not entitled to in contractor tax laws. I put tax returns in on my PAYE pension and wages because HMRC are incompetent.

Aah, sorry CT, that wasn't aimed at you personally. It was just an observation that admittedly I didn't put across very well.

 

[Spearmint]

In the 1st quarter of this year I was approached by Thales to apply for a role and this was advertised in Bristol.

'Brilliant!' Thought I, a senior role with a genuine uplift in pay and local to me. At the end of the interview (which went well), they informed me that the role was actually in Crawley and it was 3 days a week in office.

'OK, that's a significant change from what you told me to apply for....is T&S available?

'Nope'

'In that case, no....I'm not interested as that pay rise is then spunked up the wall on renting a room, food and fuel' Literally zero incentive.

Thales are a pain in the arse to deal with at the best of times, but I now watch them like a hawk and nothing gets done as a favour.

 

[ERT]

In the 1st quarter of this year I was approached by Thales to apply for a role and this was advertised in Bristol.

'Brilliant!' Thought I, a senior role with a genuine uplift in pay and local to me. At the end of the interview (which went well), they informed me that the role was actually in Crawley and it was 3 days a week in office.

'OK, that's a significant change from what you told me to apply for....is T&S available?

'Nope'

'In that case, no....I'm not interested as that pay rise is then spunked up the wall on renting a room, food and fuel' Literally zero incentive.

Thales are a pain in the arse to deal with at the best of times, but I now watch them like a hawk and nothing gets done as a favour.

Ah man, I feel you on that. I dont mind the 2-3 days in the office, but if i am in the office by myself, working on a laptop (which can work anywhere), I may well be doing that work at home...

Perhaps the bean counters equate "bums on seats = more productivity" rather than looking at the wider-package.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

Perhaps the bean counters equate "bums on seats = more productivity" rather than looking at the wider-package.

If it's anything like the Norwegian company that employs me it's more a case of "we're paying for this lovely, expensive office and have to justify that, be in the office 3 days a week"

I'm lucky as I'm 15 minutes from the office and I have a split role with a client so I do some time in their office each week - 1/2 a day because my boss doesn't want me going feral and leaving for them - not that I would, in-fact I do believe they're about to announce a load of layoffs today / tomorrow (which will make the news).

 

[Downsizer]

I'm an SEO / Professional Level 2 in DE&S.

Is that the same as Professional II Pay Range 1?

 

[Spearmint]

Is that the same as Professional II Pay Range 1?

Engineers are Pay Range 2.

Professional II is a C1 in old money and the disciplines that sit on Pay Range 1 are Commercial, Finance, Ops Delivery etc.

SALMO and these new fangled 'Work Coaches' I mentioned earlier sit on Pay Range 3. SALMO because there's danger pay with diving and the Work Coaches because no bugger was applying for it otherwise..... which means we now have a load of folk potentially well above their capability in roles of significant weight.

 

[Downsizer]

Engineers are Pay Range 2.

Professional II is a C1 in old money and the disciplines that sit on Pay Range 1 are Commercial, Finance, Ops Delivery etc.

SALMO and these new fangled 'Work Coaches' I mentioned earlier sit on Pay Range 3. SALMO because there's danger pay with diving and the Work Coaches because no bugger was applying for it otherwise..... which means we now have a load of folk potentially well above their capability in roles of significant weight.

How much would a II Pr1 be getting?

 

[Spearmint]

How much would a II Pr1 be getting?

They should now be on (minimum) £45.2K.

 

[Downsizer]

They should now be on (minimum) £45.2K.

FVCK ME!!!! Given how incompetant they are that is astounding! I'd have guessed about 30k.