Thieving Fire Fighters

[Stax]

Scoosher, if you're not a troll, you have just managed to put your case right back to the beginning. At least Barney McGrew and Trumpton put their cases to us in a logical and well balanced manner. As to your ridiculous comment about people dying, we are talking about the Armed Forces here, albeit on an RAF website, watch the news and read your local memorials to find out how many servicemen have died over the last couple of years, whilst I don't want to start a pi55ing contest I think you'll find its more tan the Fire Service. Bearing in mind the time of year, it's just as well the Firemen during WW2 were happy with their lot, London could have been a heap of ashes had they gone on strike for more pay!

 

[firefighter]

Apology

Apology

Listen... You bunch of Douglas Badder wannabees.....

Stop moaning and whinging about Firefighters.......if you want to be a NODDING plodder doing as your told and not having the "bottle" to stand up for your rights or those of your colleagues, dont have the audacIty to tell us.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME SOMEONE FROM THE RAF LOST THEIR LIVES...APART FROM PILOT ERROR...OR DUE TO MECHAMICAL FAILURE PROBABLY CAUSED BY YOU LOT OF SO CALLED MECHANICAL ENGINEERS. ( GLORIFIED BUS MECHANICS, DOG WARDENS, COOKS AND SECOND RATE ARMY SOLDIERS.)

SO SHUT YOUR STINKING GOBS....
HOPE THE NEXT ROUND OF DEFENCE CUTS DECIMATE YOU LOT...

As a serving Firefighter and ex-Airman, I can truly say that I hope the above is just a troll and not a FF.

Nobody wants to see you guys in danger simple, but this strike by the West Mids is only the last resort in order to protect our Firey's and MEMBERS of the PUBLIC!!!!

If we continue to allow this government to destroy the Fire Service (Once refered to as 'the best performing public service') then all will have been for nothing. Yes FF's get to sleep (dressed) on an uncomfy foam mattress for some of their 15 hour nightshift. If you need our service in the dead of night (here's hoping that you never will) then do you want someone who is rested and alert or knackered after been up doing pointless work? We can not drill at night, most Fire Stations are in the midst of the community we serve, one is not receptive to lectures at 3 in the morning. Hence perhaps the dark days of 'BUll" will be forced on us.

We are striking to save lives NOT to cost them and putting all the bollox posted on here to one side, if when you are forced to cover for us it goes tit's up WE WILL BE THERE FOR YOU.

I am sorry that you are been feked about leave cancelled etc.....if there was another way believe me we would take it.

Talk to a firefighter, you will see this is not about bed's, money or anything else that the government choose to spin your way.

THIS strike is to save lives.

Good luck and stay safe.


(duck's INCOMING!!!!!!)

 

[Twonston Pickle]

Scoosher clearly has a high opinion of himself and I truly believe he does not represent the firefighters in the effective way that Trumpton et al have. However, I hope he was a troll because that post was way below the belt.

Many children are without a father this Xmas due to a C130 crash in Iraq; the biggest single loss of British servicemen in Iraq and all bar one were RAF. The sacrifice these men made was the ultimate one. I did not know them nor have I met them but I wept when watching their remains brought home. This particular time of the year holds painful memories for us all when we reflect on the sacrifice others have made.

Back to the original point, more servicemen will be put at risk due to overstretch partly caused by these strikes.

Mods - Please remove Scoosher from this site; I enjoy debate but not this emotive sh!te.

 

[fat lazy techie]

Scoosher, you utter knob jockey, it's nice to see you grace these pages with reasoned debate. At least some of your breatheren are having a go at defending yourselves with a bit of common sense.
If you must know I have lost friends out in the gulf, and not to pilot error. I suggest you sort your life out, assuming you have one that is.
If you are questioning out technical knowledge by comparing us technical types to bus mechanics then perhaps you have no idea how an aeroplane and it's associated systems work. When was the last time you saw a bus break the sound barrier?

Wobbly, is it possible you could stop this tit from ever desecrating these pages again?

 

[firestorm]

I assume, Firestorm, that your comment was aimed at me and my colleagues. Let me first correct a few misconceptions you clearly have about the Armed Forces:

1. Free pensions - the Government, on our behalf, contributes a notional 11% to our pensions. We do not see this in our pay, it is automatic. This is a good reason why we are not as well paid as many other public sector works, particularly at the lower ranks (both airmen and officers).

2. Cheap accommodation? Have you seen the sh!tholes in the UK; even asylum seekers cannot be accommodated in some of our blocks! Cheap yes, worthless yes. Moreover, hvae you even seen the tents & cabins we live in overseas, sometimes for 6 months? No Hilton I can tell you.

3. Cheap food? Pretty much on a par with the accommodation; civilianised (read cheap) staff, sh!te food (with some exceptions) and the cost is starting to creep to equivalent levels to civvy street. We also have little choice where to get our meals from as most bases are in the middle of nowhere.

Next time, do some research on our terms and conditions of service before slating us! Remember, 15% of the Armed Forces have done your job the other 85% sustained an increased workload as a result; how many firemen have done our job?

Rant off.

Edited to include the fact that I am writing this in my break during 10 hours of duty so far today (I work 5 days a week every week and this is the norm). I also missed Xmas, New Year and the birth of my brother's first baby whilst in Iraq. We are maxed on Ops and in the UK. 24/7 is starting to actually reflect some peoples working days.

As I said. FREE PENSIONS. You pay NOTHING. I pay them for you as a taxpayer. If your accommodation is so crap, LIVE OFF CAMP and pay proper rent or mortgage and pay FULL PRICE for your food, I've seen the food and accommodation, stop moaning.

Misconceptions?
Are you really that bothered about them as you are not interested in listening to the other side with firefighters.
Do some research? Well I've done a shed load more than you. I was in the RAF for 6 **** easy years. How many firefighters have done your job? I'd say about 30-40%.
Missed a few Christmases? Bless! Who hasn't?

Rant over.




...and try the spell check facility.

 

[Plumber]

I believe the pension thing was explained by the fact our wages are slightly sub standard.

Many of us do live off base and so pay a mortgage and normal prices for food.

We also put up with much more crap than many other people in the public sector without half the complaints we're hearing from you lot. i.e. disturbing the rest of the house because I'm working shifts or females using public transport- boo hoo.

If thats all you have to complain about I'm sure there are many people out there not connected to any of the services think your need a reality check.

The words spoilt, mollycoddled, greedy, selfish, keep going around my head when someone says firemen. Along with alot of the members of the public.

 

[Bluntend]

Time out.

Time out.

May I suggest that if people want to further the debate, they refrain from pitiable arguments about which 'side' has lost the most personnel and in what circumstances? Just because a soldier, sailor or airman dies in peacetime does not make his or her loss any less tragic. For servicemen and women at every level (!), training for war is in many instances as dangerous as the real thing. I, for one, know of far too many men and women who have lost their lives away from a war zone and quite frankly consider the comments of individuals like ‘Scoosher’ to be utterly contemptible. I only hope that other members of the Fire Service feel the same and if they know this tit, take him away for a quiet ‘chat’.

 

[Twonston Pickle]

How many firefighters have done your job? I'd say about 30-40%.

Firestorm,

What I should have said is "How many firemen have done our job whilst still employed in the fire service"

If your accommodation is so crap, LIVE OFF CAMP and pay proper rent or mortgage and pay FULL PRICE for your food, I've seen the food and accommodation, stop moaning.

This has already been commented on by one of my colleagues but I too live off camp and pay a proper mortgage. I, personally, don't have a problem but I am concerned for some of those under my wing who, due to the fact they earn much less than a fireman, are unable to get on the property ladder. An SAC earning £13K per year, even with "free" pension (remember "we" contribute 11% to ours as well) is sh!t upon even more than you bleating firemen.

As a final note:

I was in the RAF for 6 **** easy years.

RAF Volleyball player were you? 6 Years! Get some time in lad.....

 

[firestorm]

I believe the pension thing was explained by the fact our wages are slightly sub standard.

Many of us do live off base and so pay a mortgage and normal prices for food.

We also put up with much more crap than many other people in the public sector without half the complaints we're hearing from you lot. i.e. disturbing the rest of the house because I'm working shifts or females using public transport- boo hoo.

If thats all you have to complain about I'm sure there are many people out there not connected to any of the services think your need a reality check.

The words spoilt, mollycoddled, greedy, selfish, keep going around my head when someone says firemen. Along with alot of the members of the public.

Pensions, bless. In the real world both sides pay into a pension, not just one, hence I'm paying for your free pension.

Your not in the public sector so why pretend you are? You complain as loud as anyone I know....but do nothing about it, because you can't.

Reality check? From someone in the forces, now that is funny!

Lets face it, you all signed up because you're not the fizziest drinks in the fridge, still, when we've modernised as you think we should, there will be no more places for ex forces personnel, in the Fire service. So your choices are prison or the streets.
Enjoy.
Crabs.

 

[firestorm]

Firestorm,

What I should have said is "How many firemen have done our job whilst still employed in the fire service"



This has already been commented on by one of my colleagues but I too live off camp and pay a proper mortgage. I, personally, don't have a problem but I am concerned for some of those under my wing who, due to the fact they earn much less than a fireman, are unable to get on the property ladder. An SAC earning £13K per year, even with "free" pension (remember "we" contribute 11% to ours as well) is sh!t upon even more than you bleating firemen.

As a final note: RAF Volleyball player were you? 6 Years! Get some time in lad.....

I left because, as a career goes, it was,erm, not very good.
I'd rather be out the RAF than a cabbage in it "sonny".

"YOU" contribute NOTHING to your pension, I was glad of that when I transferred over my pension though.
I bought about 4 FREE years with it.

It's firefighter by the way, gender neutral and all that.

Over to you ginger......

 

[scallywag]

Fire Dispute in West Midlands.

Fire Dispute in West Midlands.

Now then chaps. I am an ex-service firefighter, who has since left and joined the fire brigade, the people that you are slagging off without knowing the facts. So i've registered to explain to you the reasons why there is industrial action, and you chaps are getting dragged into it.

As I pointed out, I'm ex-service myself, as are a great many firefighters. I too served in the falklands and the gulf, and was deployed on the ambulance strike, so I do know what its like for you chaps.

Firstly, let me say this very simply. THIS IS NOT ABOUT PAY. The firefighters of west mids are NOT trying to get more money, they are striking because of cuts to fire cover and to the changes, without agreement to their conditions of service.

They have had deconian shift imposed on them, even though the pay agreement of 2003 said that ANY changes to shifts should be negotiated, not imposed. This has not happened.

Because of the CUTS to the service, there is now a very REAL danger to themselves and the public when the sh*t hits the fan. The public will also be in more danger as the fire cover has been cut, which means longer response times.

The West mids lads and lasses were told that they would have to work 6 night shifts in a row, all finishing at midnight. They were promised payment for travelling to stations that were not their home station, which means transporting their own kits all over the place. Once again, they were lied too.

I should also like to address another arguement that was put on this site. That the military are on worse pay to us firefighters. Someone even put a nice little piece up to demonstrate that. But you forgot to mention that we PAY for our pension, paying 11% of our wage each month for it, but the military do not pay contributions. For a firefighter, the 11% is over £200 a month. You also forgot to mention that all you single lads have your food and accomadation taken out of your wages, did you figures include that? You are sent all over the world and the country, but do you pay for your own moves? Do you move straight into either a block or married quarters?

WE, firefighters know that you lads are being squeezed just as we are, we know that you can't fight back, but we can, and some of you at least might leave the RAF and join fire brigades around the country in the future. You will find that in the British fire service of 2005, management bully their staff at every turn, changing shifts as they like, changing work patterns with no reward, changing our conditions of service, the list goes on.

One last point, the bit about firefighters moaning because we want to play volleyball is stupid. I've worked on an RAF Fire Section, I know how much volleyball is played there. Many brigades have stopped volleyball, indeed many have or will soon be stopping us doing any PT during work time. Yes, we are also fighting the removal of beds, not because we are lazy, but because the Local Authorities have got away with NOT paying us a shift allowance, even though we work nights and weekends. One shift that has been put forward and is trying to be forced through in Nottinghamshire would mean that we would NEVER get a weekend off unless we are on leave. NO ONE in the RAF does that. Now they want to take away beds but not pay the shift allowance they have always refused because we did have beds.

That is the fight we are in, and we are sorry that you chaps are dragged into it, but as someone pointed out about our conditions of service, we knew what the job involved when we joined. So did you lads, you knew you would be called on to cover strikes, so why moan about it now you have to do it? Why join the services if you are not preparred to go to war. Covering strikes is part of your job. We don't want to strike, but our conditions of service and our pensions are being changed, changed from what we signed up to when we joined, that is why we are fighting.

I would ask that you all think long and hard, and get your facts right before you post. We in the fire service know that Chief Fire Officers and management watch these sites with interested, as do the press.

 

[Stax]

Scallywag, a well put together post and along with Trumpton and some others it is nice to see a well reasoned arguement on this thread. However the fact still remains that some of your members are going on strike, again, after the debacle of the national strike. If your management are trying to stitch you then the FBU, who were extremely vocal during the national strike can't sort this out with the bosses then perhaps you should get some harder negotiators in there. I (should) be correct in saying that Firefighters joined to save life and make a difference, not for the pay. If shifts are being changed to the detriment of the cover you give then I don't see the logic in striking. Surely this is even more detrimental? especially with us half trained, over paid, whinging servicemen having to cover for you with our ancient equipment! As to pensions, pay, mortgages etc. I (as many othes do) have a mortgage, pay full tax and NI, travel to and from work with no extra due to the fact I live to close to my unit. I have spent around the region of 3 years away from my family in the last 8 and covered various strikes. We are losing the "payment at source" for food and the guys are getting pay as you dine, and it's not cheap, it's the same as you would pay, the wages however don't go up by comparison. Things change for everyone, if you can't adapt, walk!

 

[Twonston Pickle]

Scallywag, Firestorm et al,

How wrong you can be:

So did you lads, you knew you would be called on to cover strikes, so why moan about it now you have to do it? Why join the services if you are not prepared to go to war. Covering strikes is part of your job.

There are several reasons why the Armed forces might step in; it's called Military Aid to the Civil Authorities (MACA) or Military Aid to other Government Departments (MAGD) but these agreements are NOT automatic and will be negotiated between MOD and Defra or MOD and ODPM as required. Military Aid is NOT a foregone conclusion. We did not expect to be covering every strike going as part of our jobs.

However, you know full well that the Government is unlikely to leave no fire cover during a strike and will bring us in to avoid a PR disaster. Don't try the "it's about safety and cuts" line - we tried that with our cuts and the Treasury won. Just because you have always done something or had something in the past, does not mean that things should always be like that. I'm sure you have all seen significant improvements in technology over the past few decades; better fire detection and suppression systems, better building materials but also better fire awareness and basic training for a large number of people (it is compulsory for the majority of employers).

I sympathise with your position in some respects but we too have our conditions changed at little notice. We cannot complain or strike but there would be a significant public safety risk, pretty much the same reason why the Police cannot strike.

With regard to pensions/pay etc, I refer back to my point about the SAC on 13K. That is 13K BEFORE his food and accommodation is deducted and, even if he was paid more without the automatic pension contribution, his wages would still only be £14.5 K. Now tell me again, why should this man or woman cover for you?

P.S. Firestorm: people in glass houses should not throw stones; is your spell checker not working?

 

[scallywag]

Nice to see that my post got replies, even if they were somewhat disappointing.

Ok, first point, servicemans pay.

When I joined the RAF it was post Maggie, the wages were cr*p. But as time went on, as an SAC, i lived in the block, in outside digs, in married quarters and finally brought my own place in the local village, all of this on an SAC's wage. I always had beer money and always had a decent car. Ok, I know that property prices have gone up, I accept that arguement, but then so have wages. When taking into account wages, you need to look at ALL benefits you have and weigh them against our wages.

When you are deployed, you get allowances, even if its only in getting your food money back, I know I've been there. In fact, during the ambulance strike, I was upset to know that it was over, as I was working from a police station and was given extra money, CASH, in my hand for food, far more than i needed to eat well.

Sorry boys, but being used for fire strikes is nothing new. My dad was deployed on the first fire strike, my uncle was used during the dustbin man strikes years ago. When you join the military, you know this can happen, just as you can go to war, be deployed to give assistance in earthquake regions, or in any other way your pay masters wish.

I'm not going to resort to a slagging match between us and you, I've seen both sides and as such, understand both sides.

You need to think long and hard about what I am saying about conditions of service. As servicemen, you are cacooned in a 'safe' world. Outside, things are very different, as I found out when I left. So much so, that I wish I had stayed in for longer.

Here is an example. Please bear in mind that I've worked some sh*t shifts in my service time, but nothing compares to what Nottinghamshire are trying to impose. They want us to work 8 hour shifts, 2 earlies, 2 middles and 2 lates, followed by 2 days off. This shift means only 4 evenings at home with our family every 8, while our present shift gives us 6 out of 8. We would NEVER get a weekend off, ever, unless we're on leave, at the moment we get 3 weekends off out of 8, (still not great). In effect, changing to our new shifts will mean LOSING between a third and half of our annual leave. Would any of you like that? You are moaning because you've had leave cancelled to cover the fire strike, (as I did for the ambulance shift), but you don't lose it, you get it when you get back. We would LOSE IT FULL STOP.

If there's one thing that really gets me angry, its when someone claims that we are moaning about pay, and its nothing to do with CUTS. Let's get this straight. Cuts WILL cost lives, not just the public that lose fire cover, but also, and I don't care how selfish this sounds, us. At the moment, if there's a decent fire, and we are the first pump to attend, we know back up is within minutes behind us. The CUTS will mean that should the sh*t hit the fan, (and it does more often than you'd think), back up is further away. This means WE are in more danger. But year after year, the Fire service is being cut, yet fire calls are going up. We are having more and more work piled on to us, even though fire calls are going up. I know that many of you think that we sit around all day, play volleyball, swan round town posing, watch tv at night, then get a good nights sleep at the end of it. WRONG. Any of you that decide to leave the RAF and join the Fire Service will find that out very quickly.

One quick point about how you chaps can do our job 'with only a few days training'. Sorry, but unless you are in the service fire service, (and as such have received proper firefighter training), you stand out side and spray water through the windows. You don't cut people out of cars, again this is left to the military fire services, you don't do all the servicing and maintanance, you don't do the fire inspections on local firms, you don't do community fire safety, you only do a very small percentage of what we do, and let's be fair, squirting water through a window is hardly difficult.

We are all public service workers, we are all sh*t on, so why bicker? When you all leave the RAF, you'll find the outside world a harsh place, especially in the public services.

 

[firestorm]

.....and don't forget you won't be doing .....CBRN, DIM,USAR,line rescue EDBA, water rescue, home risk assesments, all the statutory stuff, training...........

As has been said, its not about better pay, its about cuts. Its got to this situation, again, because management boards refuse to talk, let alone negotiate with the "vocal" FBU.

These cuts affect YOUR families.

 

[Stax]

Firestorm, Scallywag, congratulations. You put together a well thought out case and for that you have my admiration. However, Scallywag in particular, things have changed since you left the mob. Many of the "extras" have been cut, and whilst the accomodation for the troops is getting better, that's no consolation when you are spending a third of your time (dependant on trade, not everyone is the same) out in Basrah. Wages do not go up accordingly, on average we get 3% usually split into 2 tranches. Yes you are correct I have never cut anyone out of a car but an RAF fireman does, still a serviceman covering for you. My gripe is the fact that nowadays, the FBU are very quick to call for strike action and as time goes on you will slowly lose the respect of Joe public, when they see yet another picket line and yet another Green Goddess responding to a shout. The problem is the media scum are quick to point out your wages, but not working conditions, your union need to address this before you get any sympathy from the Armed Forces, remember your last big strike was just as we were going into Iraq, why should we support you? Yes we expect you to respond to a shout at our properties, for our families, this being another reason why we find it difficult to support you. Imagine being out somewhere, being at risk from mortar and sniper attack, then finding your family have died in a fire because of a firemans strike! Think on, we trust you to do your jobs, as you trust us to do ours.

 

[firestorm]

Firestorm,



This has already been commented on by one of my colleagues but I too live off camp and pay a proper mortgage. I, personally, don't have a problem but I am concerned for some of those under my wing who, due to the fact they earn much less than a fireman, are unable to get on the property ladder. An SAC earning £13K per year, even with "free" pension (remember "we" contribute 11% to ours as well) is sh!t upon even more than you bleating firemen.


So what are you doing about this for your underlings fella?
Have you made representations to you seniors or the MOD or just "felt a bit sorry" for those underneath you?
We have the FBU to represent us, that's why, as a last resort, after management stalling and government interference (I'm sure you know all about that) we end up in dispute.
Its a shame you can't/won't see both sides, just the spin you're fed.
I'll not lose too much sleep over it though.
My spell check seems fine to me.

As a footnote. How many ex forces leave to join the Fire service?
How many ex Fire service leave to join the forces?? Answers on a postage stamp...or a free bluey.

 

[firestorm]

Firestorm, Scallywag, congratulations. You put together a well thought out case and for that you have my admiration. However, Scallywag in particular, things have changed since you left the mob. Many of the "extras" have been cut, and whilst the accomodation for the troops is getting better, that's no consolation when you are spending a third of your time (dependant on trade, not everyone is the same) out in Basrah. Wages do not go up accordingly, on average we get 3% usually split into 2 tranches. Yes you are correct I have never cut anyone out of a car but an RAF fireman does, still a serviceman covering for you. My gripe is the fact that nowadays, the FBU are very quick to call for strike action and as time goes on you will slowly lose the respect of Joe public, when they see yet another picket line and yet another Green Goddess responding to a shout. The problem is the media scum are quick to point out your wages, but not working conditions, your union need to address this before you get any sympathy from the Armed Forces, remember your last big strike was just as we were going into Iraq, why should we support you? Yes we expect you to respond to a shout at our properties, for our families, this being another reason why we find it difficult to support you. Imagine being out somewhere, being at risk from mortar and sniper attack, then finding your family have died in a fire because of a firemans strike! Think on, we trust you to do your jobs, as you trust us to do ours.

Stax, a fairly reasoned response. Thank you. A few points if I may?

RAF firemen cutting people out of cars? Well I'm sure they'd have a good go, but without proper training or experience and just basic kit, well its just playing.
With regards to the FBU being quick to strike, do you think we like this?
Before the 2003 strike the FBU hadn't had a national strike since 1977! That's some hair trigger...not. Strike is the very last resort, after all avenues have been exhausted, it takes months of talks before strike action is even considered. Being on strike was truly awful, the guilt and the financial cost are horrific, so we don't do it for fun. As for the public, well if the public opinion really mattered we'd all be on 30k+ and MP's would all be on a lot less, but public opinion really doesn't matter, because the public have no idea whats going on, all they care about is that they call 999 and get a couple of fire engines to their door in less than 10 minutes. We do this, but if these cuts keep happening we won't simply be able to any more. But for a lesser service your taxes won't fall! Try getting your point over to the press about conditions of service, if there is no sensational story then it doesn't get printed.
I'm not after your sympathy, neither are any of my colleagues. I'd just like you to make an informed decision before gobbing off.
You said I should imagine you being under attack and finding your family had been killed in a house fire when we are on strike.
Well imagine your family being killed because the local fire station had been downgraded or shut and we'd done nothing to stop the cuts in the first place.

And twonston, you don't pay 11% the government do. Final salary schemes usually have both employer and employee contributing. Check your payslip. No superannuation deductions.

 

[scallywag]

A fair post, I agree with almost everything you said.

However, as I'm an ex-RAF firefighter, I do know that the RAF Firefighters are trained and capable to cut people out of cars. They have their own equipment and do a great job. I know I'm a firefighter and shouting for our side, but I try to be fair and give credit where credit is due. The RAF firefighters are just as capable to cutting people out of cars, and using BA inside buildings, but that is because its their job to know that and they have received the training to do it.

Like the last poster, all I ask is that you look at it from a fair and balanced position. You ask how we'd feel if you were overseas and your home caught fire while we are on strike, my answer to that is, we'd feel the same if it was OUR house that caught fire during a strike, the same as we feel about any fire.

We are fighting because management have finally got the go ahead to do whatever they please. Now they are trying every idea they've had in their tiny minds and written on the back of a fag box. We can see the problems and pit falls, but now our senior officers are nothing more than bean counting managers. Closing fire stations and down grading responses, changing the rules about response times are all designed to save money.

The ambulance service have already been hit like we are being hit now. That is why when you ring for an ambulance, you may or may not get one. If you ring for the police, you're lucky if you get same day turn out. At the moment, if you ring for a fire engine, you ALWAYS get one immediately. Down grading fire cover, closing stations, reducing night time cover will make us just like the other emergency services, where you have to wait for ages for us to turn up, and when we finally do, we don't have enough staff to deal with the incident correctly.

We don't want to strike, we don't want peoples to die, but you have to look at the big picture, better that people be in slightly more danger for the durations of the strikes than be in danger all the time because fire cover is being reduced to a point where we become overstretched and unable to attend everything as we do now.

 

[Bitburger]

And twonston, you don't pay 11% the government do. Final salary schemes usually have both employer and employee contributing. Check your payslip. No superannuation deductions.

Ok let me explain again for you firefighters. You are right we do not see a contribution for pensions on our pay slips. However, when our pay is set by the pay committee, the amount they award as annual salary is reduced by 11% to cover our pension.