Thieving Fire Fighters

[firestorm]

So what about the nurses then?
Mrs Techie happens to be a nurse and is feeling the effect of understaffing within the NHS, as are hell of a lot of nurses. Do they threaten to strike? Will they strike?
The answer to the latter is NO. Why? Because they care about their job and feel a sense of duty to their patients. They have to work in, often, unpleasent environments. Put up with abusive patients/relatives. Work the whole shift on their feet with minimal time for a break. Often have to work over thier shift time with no recognition or extra pay. Sometimes the shift patterns only give the minimum rest period between shifts (late then early) on a regular basis.

Take a look at their pay.
3 years university training on a miserly bursary of £500 per month (approx).

For those trusts who haven't implemented agenda for change:
D Grade £17,610 - £19,473
E Grade £18,818 - £22,725

For those trusts that have implemented agenda for change:
Band 5 (D&E Grades (staff nurse & senior staff nurse)) £18,698 - £24,198
Band 6 (F&G Grades (sisters & senior sisters)) £22,328 - £30,247

Thanks for the reply.

You'll not get no argument from me about the pathetic rate of pay for nurses. Its a scandal.
However, this debate is not about pay. The strike action in Suffolk was not about pay. The strike action in West Midds is also not about pay. Pay is not the issue here, but if it was the argument that we should pay worker A a sh1tty wage because worker B gets one, you'd have great trouble persuading me.
Perhaps a reason that nurse pay is so sh1t is that the government know that nurses won't strike? Who knows?
Perhaps nurses would feel a bit different if they were told their hospitals were closing and their shifts were being changed, without their consent, to one that's really crap for them? Who knows?
Oh to have pay grades that pay us for extra skills and experience! We have but 2 grades as firefighters. Development and competent. Competent pay is about £25k regardless of how long you have been in or how many extra qualifications you gain, and there are many.

If any of you or your colleagues get called to provide strike cover, remember its not and "us and you" scenario, we'd much rather it hadn't got to this state, but there are a few things you can do to keep yourselves safe as Rupert or Rodney sends you in to do something you think is dangerous.
Ask at your local picket line. You won't be abused regardless of what you've been told. you will get plenty of advice to keep you safe. Or ask on here. If I can't answer I'll find someone who can.
Keep yourselves safe.

Cheers.

 

[scallywag]

I echo firestorms statement. Go to the picket lines and chat with the firefighters there, you might just be surprised.

 

[M_for_Mother]

I reckon most of these lads may just might end up at the Picket Line, but only because we'll be running your Fire Stations you work-shy gimps.

The crux of the matter is the moral problem that you pose by, effectively, giving up work. You talk of improving conditions and 'forcing' this on the Government for safety's sake, but there is nothing more dangerous than having no professional fire cover at all. The fact is that you guys cannot control your Union and don't have the first clue how to improve things without strike action.

For all the 'firefighters' on here who alledge military service, you need to understand that things have changed in the RAF over the past 5-10 years, to the point where there are fewer guys, less benefits and more dets. We aren't complaining about our work-load, we just think its cruel and unusual of you commie tw@ts to strike when we're so busy and expose the uk to danger and heartache as hard-pressed Service Personnel have to take up the slack.

Personally I think that the Emergency Services should be banned from strike action. The Police are, and you ask any Sailor, Soldier or Airman what would happen if he or she refused to go to work in the morning, its fairly black & white. How can you claim to protect people, when your actions only endanger lives?

PS. For what its worth, no Rupert (or Rodney) worth his salt, would lead his guys into a burning building if they were unhappy about their training or equipment. The lives being risked are those of the occupants. You bunch of cnuts.

MFM

 

[Plumber]

I have to say, that after having read all the poor excuses posted so far in defence of your strike action, I'm still of the opinion I was at the start.

The only reason your going on strike is you don't like change, none of the changes spoken about on here seem to be overly extreme nor out of sync with modern working practices.

Your just being expected to actually earn the money you collect every month.

BTW well said M even if a little strong.

 

[firestorm]

I reckon most of these lads may just might end up at the Picket Line, but only because we'll be running your Fire Stations you work-shy gimps.

The crux of the matter is the moral problem that you pose by, effectively, giving up work. You talk of improving conditions and 'forcing' this on the Government for safety's sake, but there is nothing more dangerous than having no professional fire cover at all. The fact is that you guys cannot control your Union and don't have the first clue how to improve things without strike action.

For all the 'firefighters' on here who alledge military service, you need to understand that things have changed in the RAF over the past 5-10 years, to the point where there are fewer guys, less benefits and more dets. We aren't complaining about our work-load, we just think its cruel and unusual of you commie tw@ts to strike when we're so busy and expose the uk to danger and heartache as hard-pressed Service Personnel have to take up the slack.

Personally I think that the Emergency Services should be banned from strike action. The Police are, and you ask any Sailor, Soldier or Airman what would happen if he or she refused to go to work in the morning, its fairly black & white. How can you claim to protect people, when your actions only endanger lives?

PS. For what its worth, no Rupert (or Rodney) worth his salt, would lead his guys into a burning building if they were unhappy about their training or equipment. The lives being risked are those of the occupants. You bunch of cnuts.

MFM

Thanks for your well versed intellectual insight. If you fail to see that strikes remove cover for 2 hours, but cuts remove cover forever then you're short sighted, or just plain thick. So we can't control our union eh? I wonder how we sacked Gilchrist and removed 3 other Exec council members? I wonder how we've tried all other avenues, but I guess I'm wasting my breath on someone with closed eyes and ears. Have things changed that much in the RAF? I'm still in contact with plenty of serving RAf mates, and your still living in the hazy days of 1950's Britain, good luck to you. When you are no longer required you'll be out on your ear without any thanks. more work, less benefits and more debts? Wow, you are finally entering the real world after all! Not complaining? Are you sure, it seems as though you are. Perhaps you are frustrated of the fact that you can't do anything to change your lot (except leave) and we are doing something about it?
Personally I don't care about your opinion of us being banned because, fortunately your opinion doesn't matter. Yet you still fail to see that we are fighting cuts that will endanger our and your community, not for 3 hours, but forever.
Lets hope no Rupert or Rodney leads you into danger with your minimal training and inadequate kit. I really hope no one gets hurt, because your officers never make mistakes do they?
Shame you had to make yourself look a bit neandertal with your expletives though. Cnut? Wasn't he a Saxon king?

 

[firestorm]

I have to say, that after having read all the poor excuses posted so far in defence of your strike action, I'm still of the opinion I was at the start.

The only reason your going on strike is you don't like change, none of the changes spoken about on here seem to be overly extreme nor out of sync with modern working practices.

Your just being expected to actually earn the money you collect every month.

BTW well said M even if a little strong.

So we don't like change eh? So in the last 2 years we haven't taken on urban search and rescue? The Fire and Rescue act has been re-written, totally new legislation, the complete change of our rank structure, the wholesale change of our discipline codes, review of our pensions, including paying the same amount in but retiring 5 years later for less benefits, (including a cut of death in service benefits by up to 50% to our next of kin), we now have civilians in operational management posts all the way up to chief officer level, the way we are paid overtime has changed (to the detriment of us) we now do pre arranged overtime, on top of the basic 48 hour week, the longest in public service. The way we organise nationally has changed, we have moved toward prevention as opposed to intervention, we have reduced ridership levels on fire engines. Line rescue, water rescue, CBRN, monitoring and mass decontamination, we are now under the wing of the office of the deputy prime minister, John Prescott, now I don't know about you but I'd hate to have him as my binman, let alone my boss. He's brought in the "New Dimension" program in response to dealing with terrorist incidents.Because of this some of us have found that we are no longer covered by life insurance policies. The Govt. wants to close 46 county control rooms and replace them with 9 mega control rooms, because they think they'll be safer from terror attacks! (take out one you take out 9 counties command and control structure). We do home risk assessments, fitting smoke alarms for the vulnerable, teaching of young offenders and youths at risk etc etc. Look a little closer before making silly crass statements, or go back to reading the sCum. your choice.
If you think the closure of fire station is not extreme then your not the fizziest drink in the fridge. If you think victorian shifts are modern, then your best placed staying in your cozy world.
Why make this an us and them issue?

 

[Bluntend]

So in the last 2 years we haven't taken on urban search and rescue? Line rescue, water rescue, CBRN, monitoring and mass decontamination, home risk assessments, fitting smoke alarms for the vulnerable, teaching of young offenders and youths at risk etc etc

Firestorm, if you don't mind my asking, what did you do before?

 

[JohnPrescott]

Why are you all so ****ed off ?.

Did you know the Ambulance Paramedics are voting on industrial action !!

Just because you cant do anything about your conditions, doesn't mean you should prevent those who can do something !!!.

One day, your going to have to step out into the real world, and stand on your own two feet. Life is much different in Civvy Clothing.

 

[scallywag]

Plumer, I have tried to put things very simply.

Firstly, I AM ex-service, ex-RAF firefighter. Yes, I know things have changed,I am still in contact with a few lads that are still in.

Ok, so, you say we don't want change. Sorry, but if you can't see what's wrong with a shift where you are at work for 6 days out of 8, a rolling shift where you're at work 4 nights a week, where you NEVER get a weekend off unless you're on leave, then you're very short-sighted. Not to mention that you end up losing about a 3rd of your leave entitlement. How about losing the rest facilities and expected to do god knows what between midnight and 7am? It's ok for you chaps on an airfield in the middle of nowhere, our stations are in the middle of housing estates.

We should not have to strike would be the correct way to look at it. You suggest that we should be like the police and not be allowed to strike, I'd agree with you if we were treated in the same way as the police were treated, however, this is not the case.
The police are rewarded, (as are the military and many other people), for length of service, we've just had that TAKEN from us, in effect, taking a pay cut.
the police are having changes made to their pension, but theirs has been 'ring fenced', which means that anyone who is signed on to KEEPS ALL THEIR PENSION RIGHTS. We have been told that anyone due to retire after 2013, will have to work an extra 5 years, paying the extra contributions for NO ADDITIONAL BENEFITS.
The police, in many counties, are changing to the shifts we work now because they are family friendly.

We are striking because we are being sh*t on from so many directions.

We are also being told that now we have to do the job of the ambulance service, with only the most basic first aid training, without all the right kit. Sounds like you chaps moaning about doing our job.

As for comments made by M for Mother, they really don't merit an answer. He obviously knows nothing about what's going on, and has no desire to listen when told. Maybe he just wants to get a rise out of us, sorry M it won't work.

 

[krusty]

Do none of you thickos realise that these strikes are about stopping cuts to service?

Do you know that certain fire authorities are cutting fire cover during the night just to save money?

What will be your response if someone from your family lives in one of these areas and dies in a fire during the night because we allowed the authority to remove fire cover without a fight?

Open your eyes for **** sake!

We aren't the enemy here.

If you want to direct your rage at the people responsible for these strikes I suggest you contact Downing Street because that's where this is being driven from.

These strikes aren't about wages they are about protecting the existing levels of fire cover for the public ,the same public the government don't seem to think are worthy of rescue from fire during the night.

I suggest you take your blinkers off and actually do a bit of research before you label us as scum.

 

[Plumber]

How's about you shut your whingeing and get on with the (relatively well paid) job your supposed to be doing, instead of trying to save the free time you've become used to so you can have a job on the side.

Your arguments about any of the proposed work changes putting the public in danger are just not cutting the mustard I'm afraid, to put it bluntly I don't believe you and your going to have to come up with some rather more convincing facts to get me to change my view.

Right now I've said that I'll go and retire to my ivory tower and read the latest scum comic strip, and if I may, suggest, that you get off your high horse and actually do what the people of this country pay you to do.

 

[scallywag]

Who's complaining about pay? As is being said again and again, this is about cuts to the service, with ultimately is BAD for the public and bad for the safety of firefighters. Too bloody right we should fight these cuts, not to would be a crime on our part.

Please try reading what people are saying and try and understand. If you're still not convinced, head down to the local fire station and see what they say.

 

[messman]

...Unfortunately the MOD have a duty to provide Aid to the Civil Community to maintain services such as these. QUOTE]

Yep, and we've done it...

I thought the Fire Service had a duty too?

I think most of the resentment is because (same as us), they knew what pay rate, terms and conditions they were signing up for before they joined.

This is the problem, the shifts have been changed for the worse and re-imbursment for the extra travelling, essential car user payment and annual leave disruption is being sought. I personally have to travel a minimum of 36 x 50 miles round trips extra per year minimum. Half of these are midnight finishing so public transport is out of the question. (it`s not feasible during the day anyway)
The Authority wouldn`t even talk to the FBU because they thought that the strike ballot would be negative. The management have no clue about leadership, they bully and victimise. The "Human Resources Manager" would be better off going back to his previos job as a milk man. He is poisen.
For the record, we dont play volley ball(banned), we dont have stand down untill 03.00 (rest period no sleeping) beds are gone(no problem) you have 14 extra shifts per year , annual leave no has been segmented meaning that what would have been 12 days is now 8 followed by two on duty followed by two off, then back to normal shifts.
These conditions have been imposed so now the Authority can pay up.
I hope this puts a bit of light on the situation

 

[JohnPrescott]

Your scum paper

Your scum paper

Is blinkering your view !.

West Mids Guys aren't asking for money !!!!!!!! There demanding the 35 pumps that the Fire Authority and CFO want to put of the run at night, stay protected.
and remain on the run.

And Plumber, as for your dig about doing what we're paid to do ??, what are you doing right now ?.

Modernisation is supposed to be good for the public ?, hmm Modernisation is run by my namesake..........and the history of this Government isn't for the good of its people.

One day, you'll be out of the overalls, and into Civvy Street. Your high horse will lose its legs !!

 

[Plumber]

Please try reading what people are saying and try and understand. If you're still not convinced, head down to the local fire station and see what they say.

I have read what has been written, and I don't believe that the public would be placed in any greater danger with the new working practices that your management want to adopt (I'm sure it's the foremost thing on their mind when making these decisions). In fact I think they probably feel that with all the more modern equipment being used nowadays, that there is alot of job duplication within your service and in the drive to save money it would be safe to start removing what is surplus to requirements, and expect its employees to start showing some committment to the service.

Why would I want to go to the fire station? To listen to the well rehearsed, force fed, feeble excuses I've thus far read through. I don't think I'll bother. Thanx.

 

[krusty]

How's about you shut your whingeing and get on with the (relatively well paid) job your supposed to be doing, instead of trying to save the free time you've become used to so you can have a job on the side.

Your arguments about any of the proposed work changes putting the public in danger are just not cutting the mustard I'm afraid, to put it bluntly I don't believe you and your going to have to come up with some rather more convincing facts to get me to change my view.

Why does everyone who isn't in the fire service think we all have cushy second jobs?
A 48 hour week is quite enough for me thanks.

My arguements about cut's to service are fact.
Do a bit of reading and you will find this out for yourself.

Less machines on the run equals more risk to the public.
It isn't rocket science

I think your view will never change as long as you keep your head in the sand and believe all the goverment and your ruperts tell you.

 

[krusty]

I have read what has been written, and I don't believe that the public would be placed in any greater danger with the new working practices that your management want to adopt (I'm sure it's the foremost thing on their mind when making these decisions).

Are you really that naive?

The decisions are about money saving ,pure and simple.

God help you when you eventually enter the real world.
Don't give your wallet to any wallet inspectors.

 

[Twonston Pickle]

Having come round (a little) to what the firefighters have being trying to tell us, I do feel a slight bit sceptical and have to agree with Plumber when he requested more evidence of the "cuts". Can anyone provide us with stats, risk assessments, impact statements that support your position. I hope someone has done them because surely you would have solid evidence to support your claim (Fire appliances can be made ready for use and launched on the public in 48 seconds etc etc).

More importantly, you seem to be fighting for the platinum solution that has as many firefighters and appliances as possible. Maybe the Government is accepting the "cuts" as a risk (risk management) rather than spending pot-loads of cash just in case (risk aversion). We have already suffered the same thought processes and will have to make do. I even recognise that the Government has a point that Defence is not up there with the NHS in the "Cash Cow" stakes.

Please, please stop bleating about the difficult shifts to us servicemen; try 6 months in a hostile country working 16 hrs a day, 7 days a week then being unable to take all your post-detachment leave because your unit is needed in another hostile country/fire strike/ambulance strike etc. Not a bleat on my part, just a counter-point to yours.

 

[Plumber]

Are you really that naive?

The decisions are about money saving ,pure and simple.

God help you when you eventually enter the real world.
Don't give your wallet to any wallet inspectors.

Obvioulsy not that naive, I haven't fallen a word I'm hearing from you lot, trying to excuse your rather galling actions as of late.


Of course they are trying to save money but I find it highly doubtful its at the expense of public safety.

Maybe there's a reason the papers won't touch your side of the argument with a barge pole.

 

[M.O.T.H]

You really dont get it do you plumber its politics and we are pawns in politicians careers

we had a leading councillor from our fire authority come to our station only the second time he had visited a fire station since he came onto the lucrative in expenses fire authority 4 years previously (he went to other fire station day before ours) and he didnt have a clue about our job nor was he interested
he has yet to go to another fire station 3 years later this very same man continually votes for cuts to OUR service and personally thinking i want the best service possibl;e 24 hours a day
i want to dial 999 and see 2 big fire engines come to my assistance within 8 minutes with these continual cuts and downgrading of fire cover fatalities will follow
THIS STRIKE IS NOT ABOUT MONEY and only once have we been forced to strike for money since 1977 EVERY other strike has been for the protection of the service provided to you (and me) the Great British public

Oh and for the record the majority of firefighters do not have a second job
and in comparisson you are in a relatively well paid job
non-contributory pension payable upon 22 years service (correct me if wrong please)
decent leave
cheap flights
3 square meals a day


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make plumber see sense.