Thieving Fire Fighters

[scallywag]

yep, through the ranks

 

[Twonston Pickle]

Corny Alert

Corny Alert

I actually enjoy putting Service before self, even if the conditions are sh!t, so I have no intention of getting out. I am merely correcting your error in asuming that things have stayed the same in the mob. I suppose that just goes to show that you cannot embrace change!!

 

[scallywag]

You want an example of the persons reported. Ok, one example I can give you off the top of my head. There was fire in a hostal, central crew arrived first and lead 15 people to safety BEFORE the next appliance arrived. That was earlier this year. Had they not got there when they did, many of those would have come out in body bags.

M for Mother, did you by chance find the story about the 'hero (I think) navy girl who pulled a small child from a burning building? Read further back if you want to know the truth. The truth was sent to the paper, but they REFUSED to print it.

 

[scallywag]

Please try and be a bit sensible, we, every one of us has ALWAYS embraced change. What about the FACT we have taken on the MASS DeCONTAMINATION duties for terrorist attacks? Or water rescue, how about Urban Search and Rescue? What about Community Fire Safety visits? As part of the job, we are constantly changing.

Yes, it might have been some time ago that I left the mob, but I still know people in, and strangely haven't heard the same moans from them.

 

[krusty]

To any firefighter:
How do you get to be Chief Fire Officer?

Do they come through the rank and file fighters?

Not any more they don't.
Anyone from any field can apply for the jobs.

In the past you had to rise through the ranks and ,as in all of the services, the best man didn't always get the job.
Promotion seekers could steer clear of ops jobs and rise through the ranks sitting behind a desk risking nothing more serious than a paper cut.

These are now the people at the forefront of the "modernisation" push and in the main are so far removed from your average firefighter that they haven't a clue what's going on at ground level.

We now have Chief and Assistant chief fire officers who have never attended a fire(I kid you not).
These are the same ones proposing cuts to cover.

 

[Bluntend]

What about the FACT we have taken on the MASS DeCONTAMINATION duties for terrorist attacks? Or water rescue, how about Urban Search and Rescue? What about Community Fire Safety visits?

Were these not negotiated at the last FBU dispute? If not, what were the conditions of the final agreement?

 

[krusty]

yep, through the ranks

Not any more.

 

[rest have risen above me]

Boats

Boats

These are now the people at the forefront of the "modernisation" push and in the main are so far removed from your average firefighter that they haven't a clue what's going on at ground level.

We now have Chief and Assistant chief fire officers who have never attended a fire(I kid you not).
These are the same ones proposing cuts to cover.

And I bet they've got loads of medals they haven't earned same as our glorious leaders.

So if you take that oar and I'll take this one because we seem to be in the same boat..

 

[krusty]

Were these not negotiated at the last FBU dispute? If not, what were the conditions of the final agreement?

The final agreement was a blank sheet of paper for the employers to do with as they liked.
Now they don't have to "negotiate" they can just "consult" which means your protest is noted ,now **** off.

To say our negotiators were inept is an understatement in the extereme.
The final agreement was sold to us with a pack of lies by our own union officials.
That is why we are in the process of replacing them and also why there is industrial action taking place countrywide.

 

[Bluntend]

The final agreement was sold to us with a pack of lies by our own union officials.
That is why we are in the process of replacing them and also why there is industrial action taking place countrywide.

Why not wait until you have actually replaced all of your Union Officials? Surely that would be fair and reasonable before committing to Countrywide Industrial action? If the new officials are an improvement on the old lot, maybe a strike could be avoided.

Also, at what stage did Industrial action become nationwide? I was under the impression that it was, at the moment anyway, regional.

 

[rest have risen above me]

another question

another question

You say you are replacing your union officials.
How are these union officials chosen?
Living in a totalitarian universe like ours I've only ever joined one union and that was as an apprentice before i joined up and at that age I didn't really care about much except that it got you a discount in the social club.

 

[JohnPrescott]

?????? Explain the last comment then.

Quite easy.......

There thick as two short planks !. I thought being in the RAF you could see through all the Government spin ???. But you cant !. Sad really.

 

[krusty]

You say you are replacing your union officials.
How are these union officials chosen?
Living in a totalitarian universe like ours I've only ever joined one union and that was as an apprentice before i joined up and at that age I didn't really care about much except that it got you a discount in the social club.

They are voted into office by the membership in a postal ballot.
The office is then held for a set period of time before the position becomes due for re election.
At the moment the unions EC are trying to cancel some of the due elections because they know the incumbent will lose the position ,as has happened on the last 3 occasions.
The membership know they were betrayed by the officials and the said officials are trying to hold onto their power by any means available ,be it fair or (as is the case)foul.

 

[krusty]

Why not wait until you have actually replaced all of your Union Officials? Surely that would be fair and reasonable before committing to Countrywide Industrial action? If the new officials are an improvement on the old lot, maybe a strike could be avoided.

Also, at what stage did Industrial action become nationwide? I was under the impression that it was, at the moment anyway, regional.

Replacing the officials can only be done when the position is due for re election ,which can be a few years down the line.
By that time we could be cut to ribbons so we have to act now.

The action is ,as you say, regional BUT there are seperate disputes happening the length and breadth of the country.
The reason you aren't aware of them is because they haven't reached the stage of striking yet and the press won't publish or broadcast that we are in dispute.

As has been said before ,strike is our very last resort and will only be undertaken when all other routes have been exhausted.

I hope you view our position a bit differently now ,although I know some of you won't

 

[Twonston Pickle]

JP,

Speaking of "as thick as 2 short planks", it is "They are...." or "They're..." the word "There" indicating a place or position and not a person. Is that suitably educated for you? In future, please allow Firestorm to represent you as at least we can have a coherent, balanced and articulate discussion with him.

We are capable (note the use of "we are" or "we're" as opposed to "were".) of seeing through Government spin, particularly when it comes to Defence efficiency and "boosting the front-line", but you also have your own opinion. What I would like is a balanced and independent assessment of what your requirment and actual capability is, without the bias of either party involved.

 

[JohnPrescott]

You say you are replacing your union officials.
How are these union officials chosen?
Living in a totalitarian universe like ours I've only ever joined one union and that was as an apprentice before i joined up and at that age I didn't really care about much except that it got you a discount in the social club.

They are elected through a Ballot..

But since the dispute, things have opened up, its not the Firefighters who are stuck in a time warp, its the inner sanctom of union buisness.

We have a New General Sec, new Assistant Gen sec, New Officers in place, these three we normal Fireifghters before Nov 2002. They have no control over full union practice, Decisions are being made by Officials who are out of term, out of date, but we are unable to oust them as we did Guilchrist. They are holding onto power, still drinking from the gravy train.

I always said, you cant run a Rolls Royce with a moggy 1000 engine. Firefighters have modernised always had. All those extra duties that have been mentioned before, were always happening, except now the spin used allows Authorities to charge for certain incidents.......such as RTA's (Which the Police and Ambulance currently do) We did it for free, Pre 2003 !!!.

But hey, Some things needed changing, some things are changing out of Spite. !

If the West Mids CFO and Officers think the new nastey bitter Split shifts, start anywhere any time are good, then why aren't they going onto the same style shifts ?.

What strikes me is the fact that Brigades Throughout the UK are playing Good Cop , Bad cop !! Seeing how far they can push, whilst the other keeps quiet.

And as for Arrse, well we have been there before, Neither of you are much different in your Vitrol towards us. But one thing links you closely together,

Your both being cut to fvcking ribbons, yet we can do something about it, you cant.

And as for withdrawing the right to Strike ?, they can if they wish, just pay us what Maggie Thatcher paid the Cops in the 70's......25% extra !!! as a sweetener.

 

[JohnPrescott]

JP,

Speaking of "as thick as 2 short planks", it is "They are...." or "They're..." the word "There" indicating a place or position and not a person. Is that suitably educated for you? In future, please allow Firestorm to represent you as at least we can have a coherent, balanced and articulate discussion with him.

We are capable (note the use of "we are" or "we're" as opposed to "were".) of seeing through Government spin, particularly when it comes to Defence efficiency and "boosting the front-line", but you also have your own opinion. What I would like is a balanced and independent assessment of what your requirment and actual capability is, without the bias of either party involved.

Thankyou for that,

 

[firestorm]

Children children children!

Children children children!

I go away for a short while and there are toys out of the pram and dummies everywhere!
I'll try and deal with some of whats gone on.................

 

[firestorm]

How's about you shut your whingeing and get on with the (relatively well paid) job your supposed to be doing, instead of trying to save the free time you've become used to so you can have a job on the side.

Your arguments about any of the proposed work changes putting the public in danger are just not cutting the mustard I'm afraid, to put it bluntly I don't believe you and your going to have to come up with some rather more convincing facts to get me to change my view.

Right now I've said that I'll go and retire to my ivory tower and read the latest scum comic strip, and if I may, suggest, that you get off your high horse and actually do what the people of this country pay you to do.

Plumer, where do I go with one so angry? I don't have a job on the side, i haven't had one for years, (though I did one in the RAF). Fact is that people feel they have to despite a basic 48 hour week.
So you think closing fire stations is no threat to the public? Can you explain this? Would closing a RAF station or losing a squadron make you better at what you do, more able to be effective? What facts would you like? I'll do my best to post them.

 

[firestorm]

I have read what has been written, and I don't believe that the public would be placed in any greater danger with the new working practices that your management want to adopt (I'm sure it's the foremost thing on their mind when making these decisions). In fact I think they probably feel that with all the more modern equipment being used nowadays, that there is alot of job duplication within your service and in the drive to save money it would be safe to start removing what is surplus to requirements, and expect its employees to start showing some committment to the service.

Why would I want to go to the fire station? To listen to the well rehearsed, force fed, feeble excuses I've thus far read through. I don't think I'll bother. Thanx.

Plumer again...here goes. So again, you don't think sending fewer resources to incidents, having less appliances on in the time when the most fire deaths occur is a bad thing? Can you tell me why? We have a surplus do we? well now attend more incidents than ever before, of a greater variety, with fewer resources. I think we are pretty efficient, that in itself is the definition of efficiency. As for being a surplus, well we now regularly run out of appliances, especially specials, at major incidents. We may have "coped" with 7/7, but the mayor of London has told the London Fire Brigade to increase its specialist FRU fleet by 60%. (perhaps we didn't "cope" that well after all).