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ForgottenName said:
I believe that the decision not to put blue suits in the JPAC was made a long time beore the current DCDS (Pers) was in post. Remember, JPAC is run by AFPAA and EDS and to put blue suits in is an expensive option for them. You may recall when blue suits worked for EDS at Innsworth before JPA came into being, blue suits were having to record all their diverson time as the company wanted to make sure that they got their pint of blood from them.

Personnally, I don't think that the wg cdrs got it wrong - I think all units are struggling at the moment.
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The general lack of Service knowledge in the JPAC is one of the things that is undermining the whole JPA project. I don't know if you have paid a visit to either of the Enquiry Centres; if you haven't it is well worth the trip. A greater level of service from the ECs than we have enjoyed so far would vastly ease the burden on my small corner of the RAF; I am sure the same is true for everybody.

HS, you are so right. I've had OC PSFs who didn't have much of a clue what went on in Gen Office (I've also had some very good ones), but almost without exception they have forgotten much of what they may have learned by the time they take up an OC Admin/OC BSW appointment. Plus, of course, the Stn Cdr's priorities for OC BSW are invariably infrastructure and security.

Even so, a year or 2 before go-live, before we knew what we know now, I think most of us would have agreed with the decision to keep the clerks at the sharp end.
 
True Blue Jack said:
The concept of Tac Admin Wg has been around since before I joined up (a long time!). The only problem I see is that the nature of our duties makes it difficult for us to operate in the same way as Tac Comms, Med, or Supply. It's one thing to set up a new operation, but we come into our own on sustained operations.

Not insurmountable, of course, but I think it would take a hefty establishment (200+?) to make TAW work, and it would necessarily have a disproportionately high number of officers. These bodies would have to come from currently established posts, which would be met with fierce resistance from Units.

I suppose anything has to be better than the fiasco that was DAG.:PDT_Xtremez_35:
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Agree with the manning level, but it should not be that top heavy. One decent Wobbly Orange and all the wannabe DAOs will melt into the background. Come on down Mr 14 Feb (if I have to explain the name, then get some time in! :PDT_Xtremez_30: )
 
True Blue Jack said:
The general lack of Service knowledge in the JPAC is one of the things that is undermining the whole JPA project. I don't know if you have paid a visit to either of the Enquiry Centres; if you haven't it is well worth the trip. A greater level of service from the ECs than we have enjoyed so far would vastly ease the burden on my small corner of the RAF; I am sure the same is true for everybody.

HS, you are so right. I've had OC PSFs who didn't have much of a clue what went on in Gen Office (I've also had some very good ones), but almost without exception they have forgotten much of what they may have learned by the time they take up an OC Admin/OC BSW appointment. Plus, of course, the Stn Cdr's priorities for OC BSW are invariably infrastructure and security.

Even so, a year or 2 before go-live, before we knew what we know now, I think most of us would have agreed with the decision to keep the clerks at the sharp end.
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Can't agree with you more about the level of Service knowledge in the JPAC ECs. Although, I believe that you get a better service from one end of the country than you do from the other - not that they would admit that of course. Could be to do with the 21,000 people (I think that is the figure that was being talked about this morning when they were talking about cutting the Navy from one of the areas) in the area who have Service connections at one place, whilst the other has to rely on agency staff. That said, and I do not want to wash our dirty linen in public, there are TG17 personnel who have not been as proactive as they could have been. Although, in our defence, the training that we have had was not fit for purpose. That is because the article was not fit for purpose on delivery, never mind the training. I firmly believe that, had it not been for the professionalism of RAF TG17, then the RAF as a whole would have had a much bigger problem with the implementation of JPA.
 
ForgottenName said:
Can't agree with you more about the level of Service knowledge in the JPAC ECs. Although, I believe that you get a better service from one end of the country than you do from the other - not that they would admit that of course. Could be to do with the 21,000 people (I think that is the figure that was being talked about this morning when they were talking about cutting the Navy from one of the areas) in the area who have Service connections at one place, whilst the other has to rely on agency staff. That said, and I do not want to wash our dirty linen in public, there are TG17 personnel who have not been as proactive as they could have been. Although, in our defence, the training that we have had was not fit for purpose. That is because the article was not fit for purpose on delivery, never mind the training. I firmly believe that, had it not been for the professionalism of RAF TG17, then the RAF as a whole would have had a much bigger problem with the implementation of JPA.
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Hear hear!
 
Having worked in (for) EDS/AFPAA since conception, I am only too aware of who provided the anwers to units on their pay queries (and they didn't leave work at 4 O'Clock every day). The Blue suits in EDS were unsure from month to month whether they would still have a job at Inns but a few of them took up the option of employment with EDS and thank feck they did (and still do). You will never be able to replace 20 odd years service experience with a guy off the street and somebody should have had the forethought to leave at least a few service personnel in the JPAC.

Yes, I have visited and it is an eye opener. Whilst I was there a vetran rang up about his Suez medal; the operative forwarded his enquiry to the medal section entitled, "SEWARS MEDAL" nuff said!

Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
 
Humble Scribe said:
Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
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Wow, I think we've all just agreed on something. I haven't seen FLWO on here for a while. I wish he was reading it now.
 
Humble Scribe said:
Having worked in (for) EDS/AFPAA since conception, I am only too aware of who provided the anwers to units on their pay queries (and they didn't leave work at 4 O'Clock every day). The Blue suits in EDS were unsure from month to month whether they would still have a job at Inns but a few of them took up the option of employment with EDS and thank feck they did (and still do). You will never be able to replace 20 odd years service experience with a guy off the street and somebody should have had the forethought to leave at least a few service personnel in the JPAC.

Yes, I have visited and it is an eye opener. Whilst I was there a vetran rang up about his Suez medal; the operative forwarded his enquiry to the medal section entitled, "SEWARS MEDAL" nuff said!

Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
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I did forego some of my clerks......(comedy pause) about 30% of them!
 
Humble Scribe said:
Having worked in (for) EDS/AFPAA since conception, I am only too aware of who provided the anwers to units on their pay queries (and they didn't leave work at 4 O'Clock every day). The Blue suits in EDS were unsure from month to month whether they would still have a job at Inns but a few of them took up the option of employment with EDS and thank feck they did (and still do). You will never be able to replace 20 odd years service experience with a guy off the street and somebody should have had the forethought to leave at least a few service personnel in the JPAC.

Yes, I have visited and it is an eye opener. Whilst I was there a vetran rang up about his Suez medal; the operative forwarded his enquiry to the medal section entitled, "SEWARS MEDAL" nuff said!

Personnally, I'd forego one of my clerks for a (wo)man on the inside, save us a lot of work. There are some good civvies in Glasgow (as there was at Inns) but if you pay peanuts............
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I was not saying that the people at Glasgow are not good people. The supervisors are top notch, but they can only work with what they have got - agency staff.
 
ForgottenName said:
I was not saying that the people at Glasgow are not good people. The supervisors are top notch, but they can only work with what they have got - agency staff.
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and what do you think we had at Inns for the last few years? A lot of the ex-blue-suiters were agency staff but they were never going to work in Glasgow (JP excepted).
 
Just chatting to a mate of mine to be told JP is being made redundant; thats
sh1te. Let's start a campaign to have him reinstated!
 
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