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[KingGuin]

Because that's all they're good for?

You really think so?

 

[Kernow]

Rumours abound at the moment.

Rumour 1 - The trade is going to be 200 Sgts overborne very soon.

Rumour 2 - The TS is reviewing the review of the review of the review and it is expected to be released in Apr/May.

Rumour 3 - Promotion is going to be cut back for a couple of years Cpl - Sgt due to Rumour 1.

Thoughts anyone?

Got some more rumours but will save those for Christmas.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Rumours abound at the moment.

Rumour 1 - The trade is going to be 200 Sgts overborne very soon.

Rumour 2 - The TS is reviewing the review of the review of the review and it is expected to be released in Apr/May.

Rumour 3 - Promotion is going to be cut back for a couple of years Cpl - Sgt due to Rumour 1.

Thoughts anyone?

Got some more rumours but will save those for Christmas.

Put that rumour back in the box until after June! Look on the bright side: we made 165 sgts and above redundant in Tranche 3, add a few more for natural wastage and those who PVR'd when they didn't get redundancy. For Rumour 1 to be correct we must have disestablished 400 of 550 sgt posts. From my own corner of the RAF we have not gone quite that far.

 

[Humble Scribe]

Rumours abound at the moment.

Rumour 1 - The trade is going to be 200 Sgts overborne very soon.

Rumour 2 - The TS is reviewing the review of the review of the review and it is expected to be released in Apr/May.

Rumour 3 - Promotion is going to be cut back for a couple of years Cpl - Sgt due to Rumour 1.

Thoughts anyone?

You came back to that thread then!

Rumour 1. Considering the re-org of PMA6, the supposed downgrading of PA slots and probably a few similar together with the need to re-address the 'pyramid' extremely likely. So what do we do with the 200?

a. Promote them?

b. Make them redundant, or

c. Feck them off so much with no promotion or redundancy payment that they PVR?

Rumour 2. No brainer really.

Rumour 3. Been there done that one in the 90's but likely to happen again!

Only hope for the Sgt posts is the 'rumour' that the SAMA Ops Manager posts, in the guise of JPA Managers, will be re-introduced but there's no reason that these should be Sgt posts.

 

[Kernow]

You came back to that thread then!

Rumour 1. Considering the re-org of PMA6, the supposed downgrading of PA slots and probably a few similar together with the need to re-address the 'pyramid' extremely likely. So what do we do with the 200?

a. Promote them?

b. Make them redundant, or

c. Feck them off so much with no promotion or redundancy payment that they PVR?

Rumour 2. No brainer really.

Rumour 3. Been there done that one in the 90's but likely to happen again!

Only hope for the Sgt posts is the 'rumour' that the SAMA Ops Manager posts, in the guise of JPA Managers, will be re-introduced but there's no reason that these should be Sgt posts.

With the alleged 25 to be/have been selected for sgt-FS I think option c is most likely. I am aware of one (good mate of yours TBJ) who is talking of putting the papers in to go.

WRT the JPA Managers it would be more likely to go to cpls than sgts I would of thought. I believe that was discussed a long time ago for SAMA Ops.

WRT Rumour 3 that was always a distinct possibility having lived through the 90s promotion drought it's hard not to think it's coming again real soon regardless of what those in the know say.

With the review I believe the PA posts are not safe at all with possible civilianisation but that is the same for just about all the non HR posts again this happened in the 90s with accounts etc.

The plan for me is sit back and wait. June is a big month for me personally but with other irons in the fire I am not going to get too excited.

Ho hum

 

[True Blue Jack]

With the alleged 25 to be/have been selected for sgt-FS I think option c is most likely. I am aware of one (good mate of yours TBJ) who is talking of putting the papers in to go.

I'm not surprised. He was (rightly) disappointed with the outcome of last year's sgt-FS board. He used me as a sounding board for weeks after that.

 

[KingGuin]

Just give it a couple of years and just burrow our heads into the JPA desk manuals!! Admin is going exactly the same way as Chefs & MTD's a few years ago where once they had got rid of everyone they quickly realised that they had screwed the pooch and then spent 2002 - 2004 trying like hell to recruit as many back as they could persuade.

Once the almighty realise that JPAC is FUBAR'd it will only be a matter of time before some tosspot is going to come up with the idea that pay issues should really be dealt with by uniformed personnel at unit level. They will probably get their 2 star and medals out of it whilst the rest of us continue to beat our heads off of our desks at the sheer stupidity of it all.

In the meantime, as listed in the posts above, it is now a case of TG17 being made to look as productive as possible. Never mind that JPA is a bag of bollox, it's okay that we have had our numbers decimated, lets see what else can be tinkered with to screw us over. Still waiting to hear who the 1st RAF Pers Admin is going to be shafted onto in a RN or Army role because of their drastic decline in numbers. Anyone fancy a six month tour on board the love boat??
All I can say is AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Many a true word oft spoke in jest" said old Bill Shakespeare. Now if my top level highly placed mole is correct, the British Army are trying to get the RAF to accept a number (greater than 60, less than 80) posts OOA in a dusty opium field far from Blighty. If approved, I am told some of those posts will be TG17 and the tour length will be 6 months. As the GSM used to say to me in my last tour...."Stag on Soldier". Which was strange considering I am in the RAF, or I will be until the next OOA!

 

[tommo9999]

"Many a true word oft spoke in jest" said old Bill Shakespeare. Now if my top level highly placed mole is correct, the British Army are trying to get the RAF to accept a number (greater than 60, less than 80) posts OOA in a dusty opium field far from Blighty. If approved, I am told some of those posts will be TG17 and the tour length will be 6 months. As the GSM used to say to me in my last tour...."Stag on Soldier". Which was strange considering I am in the RAF, or I will be until the next OOA!

This will definitely happen. Soon.

 

[True Blue Jack]

6-month OOAs for non-formed units are the way forward, it's what the Navy and Army have done for a long time, and in this age of jointery we are running out of excuses to have shorter tours.

Pros: The guys in critically-manned trades (MTD, Chef, etc.) will get more time at home between Op tours.

Cons: The RN and Army do their Op tours in between normal postings, but we just abandon our jobs for the length of the tour and have to pick up the pieces when we get back. Factor in pre-deployment training and POL and an extended tour length will take as away from our normal place of duty for 8/9 months. I can see us going down the road of fixed tour lengths, i.e., 2 - 3 years with an Op tour between each, or at best, every other posting. Sorry, assignment, just can't get used to it!

 

[Humble Scribe]

If we do pick up any Army/Navy posts for OOA Ops, lets hope they send some Wobblies out there; I can't believe there are so few Wobbly posts OOA in TG17 and it might mean that some of them pull the plug on their illustrious careers and get some promotion going again. If not, we could end up in the same position as the Chefs, FFtrs & drivers with DWR every 12 months or so for jnr ranks.

 

[Kernow]

If we do pick up any Army/Navy posts for OOA Ops, lets hope they send some Wobblies out there; I can't believe there are so few Wobbly posts OOA in TG17 and it might mean that some of them pull the plug on their illustrious careers and get some promotion going again. If not, we could end up in the same position as the Chefs, FFtrs & drivers with DWR every 12 months or so for jnr ranks.

The lack of Wobbly OOA posts is probably due to the lack of Colostomy Bag changing facilities away from home.

I firmly believe that the system will change from 4-6 months in the not too distant future. To be honest it is long overdue, not only to bring us in line with the other 2 services but also to try and alleviate the pinch on the frequency of going away. If the powers that be can bring in a new plan (that works) to reduce the amount of prep time then maybe it will be for the better. One possibility is to change the CCS into a more focussed piece of annual training would help. Increase to 2-3 days involving the practical soldiering rather than what we have now would possibly negate the need for the 2 week course or possibly reduce that time. May not be the perfect solution but what is.

 

[True Blue Jack]

May not be the perfect solution but what is.

Reduction in operational commitments and/or increases in numbers of personnel. Simple, really.DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Humble Scribe]

Kernow/TBJ you both make really valid points. Like you've said the problem with 6 month dets is the time spent away from primary duties and I don't think the answer is 2-3 year postings with dets in between; you only have to look at our commissioned colleagues to see that doesn't work! Maybe the future's on a Tactical Admin Wing who fill the OOA posts from within their own resources, I think its coming!

 

[True Blue Jack]

Kernow/TBJ you both make really valid points. Like you've said the problem with 6 month dets is the time spent away from primary duties and I don't think the answer is 2-3 year postings with dets in between; you only have to look at our commissioned colleagues to see that doesn't work! Maybe the future's on a Tactical Admin Wing who fill the OOA posts from within their own resources, I think its coming!

The concept of Tac Admin Wg has been around since before I joined up (a long time!). The only problem I see is that the nature of our duties makes it difficult for us to operate in the same way as Tac Comms, Med, or Supply. It's one thing to set up a new operation, but we come into our own on sustained operations.

Not insurmountable, of course, but I think it would take a hefty establishment (200+?) to make TAW work, and it would necessarily have a disproportionately high number of officers. These bodies would have to come from currently established posts, which would be met with fierce resistance from Units.

I suppose anything has to be better than the fiasco that was DAG.DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[Humble Scribe]

The concept of Tac Admin Wg has been around since before I joined up (a long time!). The only problem I see is that the nature of our duties makes it difficult for us to operate in the same way as Tac Comms, Med, or Supply. It's one thing to set up a new operation, but we come into our own on sustained operations.

Not insurmountable, of course, but I think it would take a hefty establishment (200+?) to make TAW work, and it would necessarily have a disproportionately high number of officers. These bodies would have to come from currently established posts, which would be met with fierce resistance from Units.

I suppose anything has to be better than the fiasco that was DAG.DT_Xtremez_35:

Since when did the Units have a say in what goes on?

 

[ForgottenName]

Since when did the Units have a say in what goes on?

TBJ has got it right. TAW is a non-starter with funding being as it is today. HS, you would be surprised how much units do get listened to.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Since when did the Units have a say in what goes on?

From the mouth of DCDS(Pers) last summer: The reason we don't have blue suits in the JPAC back offices is because at an OC Admin Wg conference prior to JPA rollout, the wingcos protested that they could only take a 20% cut in our manpower if they retained what was left at Unit level. Hindsight being a wonderful teacher, not the best idea they ever had.

 

[ForgottenName]

From the mouth of DCDS(Pers) last summer: The reason we don't have blue suits in the JPAC back offices is because at an OC Admin Wg conference prior to JPA rollout, the wingcos protested that they could only take a 20% cut in our manpower if they retained what was left at Unit level. Hindsight being a wonderful teacher, not the best idea they ever had.

I believe that the decision not to put blue suits in the JPAC was made a long time beore the current DCDS (Pers) was in post. Remember, JPAC is run by AFPAA and EDS and to put blue suits in is an expensive option for them. You may recall when blue suits worked for EDS at Innsworth before JPA came into being, blue suits were having to record all their diverson time as the company wanted to make sure that they got their pint of blood from them.

Personnally, I don't think that the wg cdrs got it wrong - I think all units are struggling at the moment.

 

[Humble Scribe]

TBJ has got it right. TAW is a non-starter with funding being as it is today. HS, you would be surprised how much units do get listened to.

I agree that funding would be a concern but it didn't stop them introducing JPA did it?

TBJ, since when did OC A's have a clue what could, or could not, be cut at unit level? or indeed what the feck goes on in PSF/Admin offices!

FN, too damn right I'd be surprised but I do work in JHC and we are the forgotten few!

 

[ForgottenName]

I agree that funding would be a concern but it didn't stop them introducing JPA did it?

TBJ, since when did OC A's have a clue what could, or could not, be cut at unit level? or indeed what the feck goes on in PSF/Admin offices!

FN, too damn right I'd be surprised but I do work in JHC and we are the forgotten few!

For the RAF, keeping the mainframe going plus SAMA was costing the earth, so something had to be done, if for us alone. The Army had Unicom, which, professionals will tell you needed replacing. Whilst the RN will defend PAS to the hilt, most will agree that a tri-Service system was the way forward. If you think you are the forgotten few (I like that, goes with my name), then you must speak out when given the chance.