SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Whats the score with the fast trackers now?
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Has anyone worked with any ex FOTF instructors? I have worked with a couple who were moved out for various reasons. A nightmare to work with, heads completely rammed up their own ar$es. They had an enormous opinion of themselves and tried to treat the lads as if they were trainees. The one thing that they both hated was to get their hands dirty with any real work, much preferred to stand back and criticise. I'm glad to say that they were both "found out" and were moved on again.
It makes you wonder what these trade "experts" have been doing these past few months with no courses running. Still with no trainees there can't be any of their famous sexual misdemeanours going on.
It makes you wonder what these trade "experts" have been doing these past few months with no courses running. Still with no trainees there can't be any of their famous sexual misdemeanours going on.
SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Worked with a couple myself, never really had a problem with them. Never really came across as lazy etc.
Must be difficult to come out of that environment and not drop into the old mode now and again
Must be difficult to come out of that environment and not drop into the old mode now and again
F
FOMP
Guest
SSH
I hear another one (Fast Tracker) from Cranwell passed this week and is bound for Valley (thats 2 Nil to Cranners). That said they still have a high FTer chop rate on the JATCC. They've still got to keep them going through as after all its not the kids' fault.
The problem comes in that they only recruited the number of FTs they needed to fill the estimated quota (naturally). What has screwed the pooch for 3Gp is that nearly half of them who've tried so far have failed the JATCC. Whoops, they now have a shortfall, hence the door opening for the normal FOAs to have a go if they have English & Maths and can pass the aptitude test. Ergo ATC steels bods from our pool to keep their own topped up, at the same time they've capped recruiting to about half that we traditionally need and blam 82% FMDL at SAC level and falling with no prospect of it going up again any time soon.
Add into the mix, the fact that the windfall of assistants going back into the terminal world from LATCC when it closes, ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN NOW BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW GOING TO SWANWICK! What do you have, a right c*ckup. With no one coming up with any ideas how to get out of the mess. God help the new WO TG9 when he takes up his post next year cos he's gonna need it.
I hear another one (Fast Tracker) from Cranwell passed this week and is bound for Valley (thats 2 Nil to Cranners). That said they still have a high FTer chop rate on the JATCC. They've still got to keep them going through as after all its not the kids' fault.
The problem comes in that they only recruited the number of FTs they needed to fill the estimated quota (naturally). What has screwed the pooch for 3Gp is that nearly half of them who've tried so far have failed the JATCC. Whoops, they now have a shortfall, hence the door opening for the normal FOAs to have a go if they have English & Maths and can pass the aptitude test. Ergo ATC steels bods from our pool to keep their own topped up, at the same time they've capped recruiting to about half that we traditionally need and blam 82% FMDL at SAC level and falling with no prospect of it going up again any time soon.
Add into the mix, the fact that the windfall of assistants going back into the terminal world from LATCC when it closes, ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN NOW BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW GOING TO SWANWICK! What do you have, a right c*ckup. With no one coming up with any ideas how to get out of the mess. God help the new WO TG9 when he takes up his post next year cos he's gonna need it.
S
Standards
Guest
J Y Kelly said:
Good management technique here..........
Found a "problem" with a member of staff......... was it confronted or corrected????
No, it was moved on as soon as they were "found out"! Well done you! I bet you have never had a car crash have you...probably seen a few in your rear view mirrors though!
Still, not YOUR problem anymore is it.
S
Standards
Guest
The FOMz said:
Oh, thats alright then.
Standards said:
Without going into detail of the two SNCO's involved, both were confronted and attempts were made to correct their behaviour. As nether of them could see the problem, after a length of time, finding another position for which they are more suited was probably the only option. In the long run they both benefited from the move, the only losers were the people who had to work with them and the legacy of cock ups and bad feeling that they left. I certainly wasn't involved in any way as to how these people were managed as I am far to unimportant to make that kind of decision so it was not "My" problem, I just helped to pick up the bits.
P
Per Adua Ad PVR
Guest
Most of the FOTF/TTF instructor SNCOs I have worked over the years only tend to have a chip on their shoulder if they have failed JATCC.
That said, I say good luck to them, get out and get an airline job ASAP. As for the ones who survived JATCC they will be going nowhere when they come to get a civvy ATC job, despite all the talk of civvy licences.
That said, I say good luck to them, get out and get an airline job ASAP. As for the ones who survived JATCC they will be going nowhere when they come to get a civvy ATC job, despite all the talk of civvy licences.
SirSaltyHelmet
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My standards dont drop! Its impossible to go below absolute zero
Seriously though, the standards are dropping because they are being allowed to drop
S
Standards
Guest
SirSaltyHelmet said:
Who is allowing them to drop though? You? Me?
Who could ensure that they rise again? Yep, you guessed it, the same people, you and me!
Standards!
F
FOMP
Guest
Good point Standards,
you're dead right of course. That said, Halton do need looking at, kids passing out without being able to pass the Fitness Test, the regime there is now so pink and fluffy the kids think they're teddy bears. Transgressors are given chits every day if they are naughty, back flighted ad-nauseum and are definitely not beasted. Nothing seems to be taken seriously but just passed onto the next stage of the sausage machine......Shawbury. Where do I start, firstly every instructor there should have done at least one tour in the rank they hold (not at Shawbury), should not under any circumstances be promoted in situ and should do a max of 4 years away from the mainstream trade. Now .........the syllabus...for Gods sake lets get it up to date....NOW, there are graphics being used in some handouts that were being used when I went through TTF. If you can't get enough volunteer instructors who are good enough then POST people in who are. Remember the days when we didn't always get our posting choices...believe me they are coming back so best people go and do a job that they could be good at whether they put it down as a choice or not. Next the receiving units, get your training systems sorted out, WO TG9 put out a CD-ROM last year with several training guides on it as "Best Practice". Have a look at it, those systems work trust me. The kids we get today aren't the same as we got 10 years ago, some can hardly read and write (I've had some) some have disabilities, most memory dump evrything they have been taught the minute they leave Shawbury. No doubt they are much much harder work for the Trng and Stds Teams, there is not a lot of point in chopping them either as all you will get (eventually) is more of the same and a hole in your establishment while you wait for another one. If they can't hack it in Ops then try them in ATC, you might be surprised. The fact is everyone in the system has got to work alot harder just to get to a level that is bearly acceptable. We have no choice, otherwise the whole lot goes down the pan. I feel really sorry for my fellow FOMS in Towers and Ops where there is already an FMDL and they are having to provide more guards than ever because of the MPGS debacle. We are heading towards critical mass on a lot of fronts so things need to change quickly, civilianise (or send all the sickies/downgrades) to the FTSs' quickly, get the serviceable bods into STC stations, sort the Guarding situation out fast, and lets get some good relevant Operational training for ALL of our FOAs and FOMs before they go OOA. Bring bacK 3 day Lock-In TACEVALS asap. But of course, this will all cost money............that we haven't got.........and a will from on high to want to do it.............?
Maybe when we are down to 6 bases and 21,000 people there might be enough cash, who knows!
you're dead right of course. That said, Halton do need looking at, kids passing out without being able to pass the Fitness Test, the regime there is now so pink and fluffy the kids think they're teddy bears. Transgressors are given chits every day if they are naughty, back flighted ad-nauseum and are definitely not beasted. Nothing seems to be taken seriously but just passed onto the next stage of the sausage machine......Shawbury. Where do I start, firstly every instructor there should have done at least one tour in the rank they hold (not at Shawbury), should not under any circumstances be promoted in situ and should do a max of 4 years away from the mainstream trade. Now .........the syllabus...for Gods sake lets get it up to date....NOW, there are graphics being used in some handouts that were being used when I went through TTF. If you can't get enough volunteer instructors who are good enough then POST people in who are. Remember the days when we didn't always get our posting choices...believe me they are coming back so best people go and do a job that they could be good at whether they put it down as a choice or not. Next the receiving units, get your training systems sorted out, WO TG9 put out a CD-ROM last year with several training guides on it as "Best Practice". Have a look at it, those systems work trust me. The kids we get today aren't the same as we got 10 years ago, some can hardly read and write (I've had some) some have disabilities, most memory dump evrything they have been taught the minute they leave Shawbury. No doubt they are much much harder work for the Trng and Stds Teams, there is not a lot of point in chopping them either as all you will get (eventually) is more of the same and a hole in your establishment while you wait for another one. If they can't hack it in Ops then try them in ATC, you might be surprised. The fact is everyone in the system has got to work alot harder just to get to a level that is bearly acceptable. We have no choice, otherwise the whole lot goes down the pan. I feel really sorry for my fellow FOMS in Towers and Ops where there is already an FMDL and they are having to provide more guards than ever because of the MPGS debacle. We are heading towards critical mass on a lot of fronts so things need to change quickly, civilianise (or send all the sickies/downgrades) to the FTSs' quickly, get the serviceable bods into STC stations, sort the Guarding situation out fast, and lets get some good relevant Operational training for ALL of our FOAs and FOMs before they go OOA. Bring bacK 3 day Lock-In TACEVALS asap. But of course, this will all cost money............that we haven't got.........and a will from on high to want to do it.............?
Maybe when we are down to 6 bases and 21,000 people there might be enough cash, who knows!
F
Fenella
Guest
The FOTF syllabus does need a serious 'Ops' inject and total revamp it is true. An 'ego' cull would be good too!
Hmmmmm, I've been watching this thread for some time and I have to say I'm very surprised by some of the comments here. I went for a visit to FOTF(TTF) earlier in the year and I have to say I was very impressed by what I saw.
I certainly didn't see any 'egos' as I think most of them died out years ago and as for 3/4 year Cpls as instructors? I can't remember the exact details but the average 'time served' was 14 years!!
Anyway, there's a brew list needed for upstairs - any takers?
JFOMz
I certainly didn't see any 'egos' as I think most of them died out years ago and as for 3/4 year Cpls as instructors? I can't remember the exact details but the average 'time served' was 14 years!!
Anyway, there's a brew list needed for upstairs - any takers?
JFOMz
F
Fenella
Guest
Good for you JFOM! I think you would need to spend a bit of time there, rather than a fleeting visit to get a feel for the place, then you would get my drift. The syllabus is still very ATC based and I believe there is a revamp being done, which is not before time.
No brew for me ta!
No brew for me ta!
S
Standards
Guest
Another thing that worries me is when a LAC arrives at a small air base in South Wales and he cannot be trained to Operational Performance Standard (OPS). Despite the small air base in South Wales having 4 Cpl's (all with many years experience operating at a small air base in South Wales). What is the process by which this training burden (at a small air base in South Wales) can be cured? Is it the fault of "The (young) instructor teaching aload of rubbish to the class. He obviously didn'y (sic) know what he was talking about, so what does that do to the trainee" or is it that people in "The real world" have spent too much time at a small air base in South Wales, that is anything but "The real world", becoming too obsessed about their own self importance?
Never mind what happens to the airman, what happens when these 4 Cpl's (all with many years experience operating at a small air base in South Wales) get promoted to Sgt (at bases other than small air bases in South Wales) and have little or no experiece of their own to rely upon when managing in a new environment.
Now that is scary.
Perhaps FOMz should buy some masking tape to enable him to patch up his glass house in deepest darkest Wiltshire!!!
Standars!
Never mind what happens to the airman, what happens when these 4 Cpl's (all with many years experience operating at a small air base in South Wales) get promoted to Sgt (at bases other than small air bases in South Wales) and have little or no experiece of their own to rely upon when managing in a new environment.
Now that is scary.
Perhaps FOMz should buy some masking tape to enable him to patch up his glass house in deepest darkest Wiltshire!!!
Standars!
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SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Love the pic!
S
Standards
Guest
FOMz, I think you have upset those in building 48!!
Standards!
Standards!
S
Standards
Guest
I know a Stu Pidman.....is that who who you mean?
Standards!
Standards!