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Aircraft licensing.

Talk Wrench

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For those of you who are serving RAF aircraft engineers, you may or may not have heard bout aircraft licensing.

For those who are considering a civvy aircraft career after leaving the RAF, I have put some links below to other websites which you might find of use. For those already studying for a part 66 license, the links provide excellent referencing and question banks.

I have placed this in "techies" for maximum exposure.

www.part66.com

www.caa.co.uk

www.easa.eu.int

www.icao.org

www.jaa.nl

www.club66pro.co.uk

www.raes.org.uk

www.airmech.co.uk

www.glam.ac.uk


Hope this is of use to you :pDT_Xtremez_30:
 
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MontyPlumbs

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Great post TW, very useful for people getting out or those looking to better themselves. Don't forget www.learning-forces.org.uk which is a great website explaining the merits of enhanced and standard learning credits which the developed ones amongst us may find useful.
 

Talk Wrench

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Sticky perhaps?

So that the links can be held here as an easy reference point?
 
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You forgot a link to the ALAE too mate which if people are looking into becoming licenced should be a definite port of call prior to leaving the service.
 

theladf

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Some of the links such as club 66 offer free subscription to people who supply recent CAA exam questions & answers, the problem is that this can lead to inaccurate information, so by all means read the questions and then research your own answers to be sure

theladf (Part 66 B1 AMEL)
 
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In response to a number of PM’s I have received over the past couple of days regarding advice on Civil Aircraft Maintenance Licensing, CV's, Tools etc. I thought the following post might be of some use.

Introduction

First of all you really need to decide where you future lies, RAF or Civil Aviation. If you are serious about leaving you must be 100 percent committed. Formulate yourself an ‘escape plan’ and stick to it religiously. Make sacrifices where necessary to achieve your aims.

Start by having a look at www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=137 and click on the Engineering Licensing link.

Read everything there is to know about licensing and pay particular attention to the Engineers Licensing Guide Document (ELGD) which is downloadable. Start to familiarise yourself with the terminology, knowledge requirements, exam requirements, procedures and regulations.

Study Options

Start studying for your Part-66 B1 or B2 licence ASAP, do not delay. There are plenty of training providers out there offering short modular courses or distant learning packages. These include:

www.licencebypost.com
www.barry.ac.uk
www.lrtt.co.uk
www.newcastleaviation.co.uk
www.airservicetraining.co.uk
www.oxfordaviation.net
www.totaltrainingsupport.com
www.part66now.com

A good number of these providers are ELC registered so you will be able to offset some of the cost of courses, books, training notes etc. I used my yearly education allowance to pay for the CAA exams and even managed to con them into paying motor mileage by submitting a F1771. That may still be possible, I don’t know? The bottom line is screw the mob for whatever you can get, make them pay for your future outside.

Studying for and successfully obtaining a licence is not easy. Do not assume your RAF training will suffice because it won't. It takes discipline and many hours ‘burning the midnight oil’ just to pass the exams. Short modular courses can make life easier but they are expensive and require you to attend full-time which will mean using up leave.

Draw up a plan in the order that you want to do the modules. Whilst no modules are easy, from personnel experience I’d advise you to start with some of the smaller subjects such as Maths and Physics. This will ease you back into a learning frame of mind and give you some idea of the exam format used by the CAA.

Don’t wait until you are ready to take the exam before you book it. Waiting times can be up to 4 months so chances are you’d have forgotten everything by the time you come to sit it. With this in mind it is worthwhile block booking exams, say one (possibly two) every 2-3 months. This will give you sufficient time to prepare. Turn up unprepared and you will fail miserably so having already paid for the exam, it will force you to study. Nobody likes throwing money down the drain.

Experience

When you eventually leave the RAF you will have to work as an unlicensed mechanic on the tools until you’ve accrued sufficient civil aircraft maintenance experience to satisfy the CAA. This is currently 1 year minimum for ex military but may be longer dependent on your circumstances and background. If you’ve been working in bays for years it is deemed off aircraft and the experience requirement can increase considerably.

Start compiling a comprehensive log book of your military experience. I used the F7502 PDR, it may still be in use? Document every job no matter how trivial. Get it authenticated by an Engineering Officer prior to leaving. The CAA want proof of your military experience for licence issue, simply stating I was on TriStar's or Tornado’s for x amount of years is not enough.

The first thing that immediately becomes apparent after making the transition to Civil Aviation is how much you ‘don’t know’ about fixing aeroplanes. There is nobody around to show you the ropes out here in the real world. You are expected to get on with any job with minimal supervision. The learning curve is vertical. X amount of years in the mob means jack **** and any status or responsibility once held becomes irrelevant overnight. You will have to start all over again, get qualified and prove your worth.

There is no such thing as single trades in Civil Aviation. You are either B1 (Airframe, Engine, Electrics & limited Avionics) or B2 (Avionics). Over recent years the RAF has started to come inline with the likes of multi-skilling, however, some 6 week mickey mouse course at Cosford does not make you a competent Dual Trade Technician. Get as much experience of the other trades as possible before you leave.

CV's

With regards to CV’s, try to avoid the most common mistake service personnel make when writing one - excessive use of military jargon. A/F’s, T/R’s, Primary Star, I/C Tea-Bar, LITS, Lean etc. means sod all to civilian employers. For NCO/SNCO's a couple of brief statements about your supervisory and management capabilities/responsibilities will suffice. The interview will be the time and place to expand on this if and when you are asked. Remember, you will be applying for a Mechanic's vacancy initially so tailor your CV accordingly. Employers want to know that you can change components, do routine servicing, diagnose and rectify faults, carry out functional checks, ground run engines etc. Try and kept it short, two pages maximum. List your training and qualifications that are relevant such as TriStar Q course, NVQ Level 3 in Aircraft Maintenance or EASA Part-66 modules. Leave out the Sea Survival, Introduction to Lean, Basic Fire-Fighting and all the other irrelevant military related crap.

Resettlement and Terminal Leave

Use your resettlement time wisely. If you are planning on making the transition to Civil Aviation why waste it on Fork Lift, Plumbing or Computer courses. Use it to do a short modular course for a difficult subject such as Air Legislation for example. Better still, save up all your leave and use the resettlement and terminal leave as a form of work placement. I did exactly that and it allowed me to start employment 9 weeks early. I got two wages for a couple of months which covered the costs of my house move.

Tools

You will require your own tools out here. Start collecting now and buy the best that you can afford because they will get used and abused with regularity. EBay is a good place to start. Snap On spanners, ratchets and sockets can be found going cheap. Do not dismiss the Halfords Professional range either, some of their stuff is excellent quality and comes with a lifetime guarantee. For any folk that go on detachment to the US have a look in Sears www.sears.com They sell Craftsman hand tools that are Snap On quality for a third of the price. If anybody requires a recommended list of tools to buy send me a PM.

And finally....

It’s a good world out here and there are plenty of opportunities for folk with the right attitude and a bit of get up and go.

Good Luck!
 
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Talk Wrench

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DH.

Your post basically says it all. Probably the best post on this site.

Thanks

TW.
 

sumps

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Yorkshire Airlines

Yorkshire Airlines

I can see now why I need to rush out get my B1&2 licence and go and work for an outfit like Yorkshire Airlines Enjoy...THIS :pDT_Xtremez_34: :pDT_Xtremez_15: :pDT_Xtremez_17:
 

Rigga

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Just re-read this thread (again) and although DH has covered things really well, and in simple english - he said not to include things like good shooting and NBC (or whatever that is now?)

However - You should include things like:
QA courses, EFDC training, Type and Component Courses, Carbon Fibre Courses, Experience in metal repairs, etc.

In other words - all aircraft technical training, aircraft management courses and RELEVANT technical experience like metal repairs. (not promotion, fighting, warfare, discipline or administration courses)
If you are applying for a mechanic or engineer job we dont want to know if you are good at Charge Sheets or Shooting or sitting in Baths full of Beans.

As Harry says, Don't include acronyms or mil-speak, like Minor/Major Maintenance. You should put Line or Base Maintenance, or Hyd/Wheel/Brake Component Workshops.

You should also practice writing Introductory Letters. (use adverts in Flt Intl or on-Line Job Sites as examples) Remember to tailor letters to the advert your answering - reply to each paragraph in the advert. A good letter can get your CV looked at - and an interview.

Study your target;
Compare Companies, wages, geographic areas. Who require replacement staff most often? Why? Cross-reference company similarities as you find them.
Decide if you want to go Contracting or not? Get into the language used.

If you have time for studying, you have time for practice.

Treat getting your next job as a Very Serious Project. Devote time and patience to it.

I filed copies of letters sent out and compared the results that came back (rejections etc.) and I learnt from them. I also made notes after interviews (Techniques, styles, people there, atitudes, exams/tests) and learnt from them too.
Unfortunately, the longer you apply for Jobs and do interviews, the better you are at applying for jobs and doing interviews. It can be a bit demoralising to keep getting interviews but no job! Stick with it.


All the best for your futures.

Rigga
 

Past Engineering

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Rigga/DH good posts, I would like to add another couple of points;

Like DH said use your resettlement wisely, go on courses that are relevant to what you want to do and that will help you. Some people went on courses purely because they got to stay away for a couple of days/week, staying in a hotel and made some money out of a course that was as much use as t*ts on a bull for getting a job.

And make sure you read the advert, if it does not ask for a covering letter do not send one, and if you are not sure of the sex of the person at the end of the advert, phone and ask, if you get this wrong you won't get far. Also when you go for the interview be polite and friendly to all you meet, you do not know who they may be.

Other than that DH and Rigga have given a lot of good advice and should stand you in good stead for when you get this side of the fence and good luck to all who are at that point now or in the near future.
 

Get Tae

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have a look at www.brooklands.ac.uk
with ECDL and bonus system from the college, you can get all modules done for just over 700 quid!!

Just recieved my first 6 modules from Brooklands College. Its mostly done on-line and so far it looks good with plenty of question and answers throughout and video/animation to help out.

I will keep you informed as to how i get on with them.

It isnt 700 quid for all the modules, no where near.
I paid 1070 quid for the first 6 and the next lot are a lot dearer. BUT good old ELC paid most and it goes up to 2000 quid in April so that will pay for the rest. nice.......
 

mightyhunter

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Just recieved my first 6 modules from Brooklands College. Its mostly done on-line and so far it looks good with plenty of question and answers throughout and video/animation to help out.

I will keep you informed as to how i get on with them.

It isnt 700 quid for all the modules, no where near.
I paid 1070 quid for the first 6 and the next lot are a lot dearer. BUT good old ELC paid most and it goes up to 2000 quid in April so that will pay for the rest. nice.......
GT, I had got info from them and I'm sure it says somewhere that if you're resident in England there's an entitlement to a form of bonus towards paying for the modules.
 

I Look Like Kevin Costner

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Just recieved my first 6 modules from Brooklands College. Its mostly done on-line and so far it looks good with plenty of question and answers throughout and video/animation to help out.

I will keep you informed as to how i get on with them.

It isnt 700 quid for all the modules, no where near.
I paid 1070 quid for the first 6 and the next lot are a lot dearer. BUT good old ELC paid most and it goes up to 2000 quid in April so that will pay for the rest. nice.......

Barry charge £1240 for 4 modules!!
 

Rikster

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A little word for those getting out soon.
The number of "N" registered aircraft flying into the UK is increasing RAPIDLY.
Continental, Northwest,and US airways are flying into LHR starting March this year, EOS are increasing their flights. Its not going to stop there.
There is a BIG shortage of A+P mechs in the UK.
A+P is easier and a LOT cheaper than your B1/B2.
I did mine in 2000 the total cost including flights was £1200. If you prepare before you go to the States you can get it done in less than a week, you are then essentially an FAA licensed engineer.

You need to have all your experience documented this will have to include Airframe/engines Lecky and AV......be "creative". A letter from your boss detailing the same experience on Sqn/Stn headed paper, get this annotated and stamped by the CAA (you have to pay for this).
Then get over to the States take all the blurb with you, including your "blue book" with as much info as possible. An interview with the FAA guy is then arranged, don't bull**** them, they might be Yanks but they are experienced Aircraft engineers and know what they are talking about.

They will then give you authourity to take A+P tests (providing you don't make a mong of yourself).

Its 3 written test (multi-guess) general, airframe,powerplant and then a practical, this is where you will trip up if you are bullsh1tting as the practical test can include a lot of "real" aircraft work, I'm not talking pumping up tyres here, brake changes, accurate measuring of damage, lecky fault finding using all the magic little gizmos, and PAPERWORK including AD's .

All the manuals and other associated paperwork you will need is provided USE IT.

The PRACTICAL IS NOT EASY if you are not "all round" experienced.
And again the examiner knows what he's talking about, if you are unsure ask questions and keep asking, He won't fail you for asking questions or for clarification of certain details, but he will fail you if you obviously are inexperienced or gob off.

A lot of people (in the UK) will tell you that an A+P is useless over here but with the massive increase in US airlines flying over thats not the case anymore, whats more its one more string to your bow, and you can still study for your B1/B2.

The other common comment is: "An A+P is not worth the paper its printed on"
I can give you over 45,000 reasons a year why thats not true!

I think this is the place I did mine, however they have relocated and are under "new management" which can only be a good thing as it was a bit gash and rough and ready when I went over.

http://www.americanairman.com/

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/GroundSchool/mechanic.asp?gclid=COeEg9vI7pACFQ6hQwodeiS31g

You can get all the test questions to download or on CD and learn before you go!

PM if you want more info
 
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