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Aircraft licensing.

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duffman said:
isn't that a bit dodgy people pitching up with their own tools and no control?
Click to expand...

In theory when you sign your job off, you are signing not only for the work done but also that you have complied with all Health and safety rules pertaining to that job, this includes "not" leaving your tools jammed in a control run etc.........:PDT_Xtremez_35:
 
Further to the Tool control thing...

I have in my office's possession:
a set of AF Spanners (1/4"-11/16" - not all the same manufacturer)
a Claw Hammer,
an Ice-Pick,
Some screwdriver Bits and
a 3/8th Drive Speed Brace.

If you didn't already know - I am the QA guy.

I walk around Hangars keeeping my eye on tools left behind after shifts and if not removed in a couple of shifts (yes - shifts!) I remove them and e-mail everyone that I have them and that they can be reclaimed on application at the office.

Some of them have been handed to me when found in "embarrassing" places such as a pair of pliers found jammed against an engine under the control rods (found etched and returned to owner, who's mate had borrowed his Kit!) Both had to give the QAM a severe "listening to" and a note lay on files for 6 months.

and the Ice-Pick (found next to a Flap Bellcrank and never found the owner)
One of the Spanners is Snap-On and has a Company Name and engineers Staff Number on it - but they didnt come and get it either!

The worst incident I have dealt with was a rivetting block, found in a wingtip after all the paint had been knocked off the outside. I got the contract supervisor's contract "not renewed", and off he went.


I have tried to introduce the etching of tools as a company standard but too many don't want their tools to be defaced and ruin their exchange guarantees with etch marks, or for tools to be traced back to them and/or lose so much space in tool kits by tidying tool kits up for accountability. The best most companies can do is ask for a list of tool kit contents - often incorrect anyway.

However - most engineers are more than protective of tools they've bought, and if you borrow one more than once, you are asked (impolitely) to get your own!

In any case - the "lack of tool control" from a military point of view, seems to work - with a bit of discipline and the threat of (the likes of the QA guy) finding it!
 
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Rigga said:
Further to the Tool control thing...

I have in my office's possession:
a set of AF Spanners (1/4"-11/16" - not all the same manufacturer)
----------------------------
an Ice-Pick,
Some screwdriver Bits and
a 3/8th Drive Speed Brace.
Click to expand...

Are they in good nick? Can I buy them off the company if they are??
 
if that system works then fair enough, just thought it was a bit odd with all the other rules and licences in civvy street, then they seem to have abit of an open door on tool control. I though having a system like tool tags would be better as a cover procedure, anyhow thanks for the answers.
 
Dirty Harry Good Gen mate,

Do any of you have any idea where to get the CAP741 Log book from I've scowered the internet and didn't really get anywhere. The CAA are offering something for £22 but It seems a bit pointless paying for a PDR file to me. Is this the only way?

Any pointers or suggestions would help me considerably.

Many thanks
 
wozzawarhead said:
Dirty Harry Good Gen mate,

Do any of you have any idea where to get the CAP741 Log book from I've scowered the internet and didn't really get anywhere. The CAA are offering something for £22 but It seems a bit pointless paying for a PDR file to me. Is this the only way?

Any pointers or suggestions would help me considerably.

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Problem is with the PDR version online has "SAMPLE" plastered across the middle of it. LINKY


Has anybody got the CAP741 as printed by the TSO
LINKY

Is it worth ordering?

ICAT sent me their version 18 months ago (that is a virtual copy!)
 
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The RAF F7502 PDR (if it still exists?) should be used to document your military experience. I adapted the relevant worksheets into a more user friendly format for the aircraft engineering trades and used these for licence application.

The CAP741 (Aircraft Maintenance Engineers Logbook) should be used to document your civilian experience post RAF. All entries should be listed in ATA chapter order.

Is it worth £22? You bet it is. The CAA absolutely love logbooks and you will get to love them too (or not as the case may be!). I cannot emphasise enough the importance of having a comprehensive set of worksheets documenting both your military and civilian experience. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the position whereby I had passed all the exams only for the authorities to reject my application for licence issue because I couldn't be arsed to compile a few sheets and collect signatures. It happens all too often so make sure you get your PDR signed up before leaving the mob.

I have blank copies of the adapted RAF PDR worksheets and an original copy of CAP741 in its entirety. PM me for further details.
 
Please note that you dont NEED to buy the CAP741 thing - Just copy the Formats onto Word Sheets and submit it as your record of employment - It isnt copyrighted so wont bother anyone. It was only made to get some uniformity to the applications and make it easier for the CAA monkeys to read.

To repeat; there is no mandate to use CAP741, just the format.

A company that I used to work for observed some difficulty concerning the identification of individual pages taken from the CAA version and insisted that each and every page was identified by the owner (e.g. named and signed on each and every printed page) to prevent copying of information.

I believe this is a good thing to do, but again is not mandated anywhere.

The edited bit...

The Association of Licensed Aircraft Engineers (1981) (known as "the ALAE") is the only dedicated UK Union for Aircraft Engineers, and also has a Log Book for Engineers. It costs about the same to non-members but is in "A5" format.
I found it too small (for me) but it is an alternative if you want one.
It is quite similar in design to the RAF's personal development / Log book. In a red leather-look hard Binder. Look them up on the internet.

My Log Book is printed on card in a "Landscape" format, but held in a normal "Portrait" four-ring binder - I copied the CAA's Format and adapted it for my own use, using their Chapter headings.
 
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I'm looking at starting a B1 license now, I should have done this years ago.

So who's the best to go through, Barry has a few negative comments, how about part66now? I also see a few other colleges advertising the licenses.

Dave
 
There are plenty of organisations out there offering courses to obtain a PART-66 AML. Some good, some not so good from all accounts although I couldn't advise as to who is the best as I did my licences via the self study route. ILLKC would be more qualified to comment as he has utilised the services of a Part-147 provider and taken the exams off the back of their study material. I'm sure he'll post his thoughts in due course.

I brought the licence by post notes when first decided to get licensed. The notes weren't the best written and it soon became apparent that I would need to source some alternative material if I were to sucessfully pass the modules. I purchased a load of books off the CAA recommended reading list and used these to supplement my studies and managed to get through the exams without too many problems.

My advice would be to source as many different types of material as you can. Beg, steal and borrow whatever you can lay your hands on. Be prepared to spend a few quid on a couple of decent books if need be. For example, a new copy of "The Jet Engine" by Rolls Royce will set you back about 40 quid. However, it'll be money well spent as this is the bible for the CAA module 15 examination and the majority of their questions are taken straight from this publication.
 
Just to back up DH on the Rolls Royce "jet engine" book, absolutely priceless, worth every single penny you spend on it. Especially if you were a Rigger like me, and hated the noisy spin dryers..........It'll teach you to love them, well like them..........well tolerate them.......ok it'll teach you to understand them, and thats the important bit!
 
Rikster said:
Just to back up DH on the Rolls Royce "jet engine" book, absolutely priceless, worth every single penny you spend on it. Especially if you were a Rigger like me, and hated the noisy spin dryers..........It'll teach you to love them, well like them..........well tolerate them.......ok it'll teach you to understand them, and thats the important bit!
Click to expand...

DH and Risker are right about "The Jet Engine", its a highly useful book in regards to the Module 15 exam. however I found that the KLM UK exam I took had questions that where more in line with the additional infomation in the ICAT Mod 15 notes I had. I like the authors comments on Trent FOHE's, something that a LHR 777 crew seemed to forget about!

As DH has stated, I used ICAT as my course provider. The course was part of a university degree course of 4 years and as such was ELCAS compatable. The notes I recieved varied from very good to rubbish (Module 11 notes were a mixture of new and old BEA training notes!) It was a distance learning course, with tutor sessions for varrious modules throughout the year. Exams had to be booked early there but could be sat at the end of the tutor weeks. Tutor support was possible on line and the website was comprehensive. As stated its a uni course for BSc, so there is assignment work with the modules. There is around 5 assignments per year of between 1,500 and 4,000 words, linked to each module. However I never sat an ICAT exam or did a tutor session, having a 147 centre 6 miles from my house and the exam surveyor being an old work mate, why go to Wales!:PDT_Xtremez_42:

Failed only 2 exams, Electrics (Day after Mike Harlands death, shouldn't have bothered, wasn't in a state to revise the night before) and the HF essay (Not enough time spent reading the subject matter for the short section the essay covered!) Passed them second time.

If you only want to do the licence, I would use DH's methods of using LBP or copys of other notes. Short courses are available from AST and Bristol college for mods 8, 9 10 etc. Air Ledge requires you to read the PDF files off the EASA and CAA website (ICAT's notes refered to them all the time) . Another goldmine of information is CAAIPs. There are so many answers to module exam questions in this document!:PDT_Xtremez_30:

It also saves your ELC for that type course (I wish I still had one!):PDT_Xtremez_40:
 
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I've just signed up with Barry College to do the BSc in Avionics but I'm still undecided on where to do my exams!

I've heard bad things about both Barry and the CAA exams, i.e. both give an ambiguous question which have two correct answers as there is no context to the question.

For example a question from M13 on standby compasses may ask for the general limits of deviation, with only one correct answer according to the CAA. But the FACTUAL answer depends as the GA limit is 2 Deg greater than the large A/C (If I'm reading the notes correctly?).

Has anyone got experience of sitting Barry and CAA exams?

Also how do people rate sites like Airmech and club66pro?
 
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Hi evr1

Im in the final stages of resettlement just now, Out in Feb next year. All I can say is that if you can get your hands on License By Post Notes, or maybe AST Notes etc then just study these notes for each module. The next thing Im going to tell you is probably the most important point to help you pass CAA exams. Use Club Pro 66, its invaluable when it comes to passing caa exams. Trust me, it is not cheating, it just aids you in learning the subject. You will need to understand the notes first. I started my B2 license in March this year and I will have 9 completed out of the 12 I need after December. I have put a fair bit into them but It is not that difficult. As far as colleges goes, I have used AST for Module 10 Air Ledge and I would highly recommend them for this module as its way to dry a subject to learn off your own back. Good setup up there. Im down in South Wales at Lufthansa LRTT just now doing my Module 13 and finding it a hell of a lot of info to take in a short space of time Nav, Comms, AutoFlight, Instruments etc But instruction is good and professional but notes can be dodgy in places. Basically I recommend using LBP and Other notes and doing Modules 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 14 self study and fill in the gaps with colleges for the rest, bearing in mind Im working towards B2 and not B1 (Heavies). If anyone would like any more help copy of notes etc then PM me and I'll help out anyway I can.

Rasher
 
Some useful tips there Rasher.

For the guys working towards a B2 licence, you may want to consider doing the appropriate category A licence modules as well. This is particularly important if you want to work in line maintenance. Most airlines/MRO's will not entertain a pure B2 in a line environment nowadays unless they hold a category A licence. Bread and butter routine line tasks such as daily/weekily checks, wheel and brake changes, cabin snags etc. fall under the scope of the A licence so the B2 guys with A licenses can be utilised more productively. Virtually everything else is taken care of by B1 LAE's as there are very few tasks that a B1 LAE cannot certify if his licence and company approval is utilised to it's full potential. There is still a need for B2 engineers to deal with the autopilot, nav and comms stuff but the numbers required are limited.
 
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