Aircraft licensing.

[taylortony]

Hi guys. I am a legacy sootie turned heavy and only worked on the c130-j. There is a good chance I may be axed at my 9 year point this September!

I haven't done anything by way of preparation for a civvy career as I always thought I would get signed on to 12. I've done a little searching on all the usual job sites and everywhere seems to want experience or a degree.

Just wondering if you guys could suggest the quickest way to get working if I don't get signed on. I love the hands on work and don't really mind traveling as long as I get plenty of time at home.

Any and all advice greatly received.

Cheers.

Same engine in electra ? Air Atlantic Coventry? Marshalls of Cambridge?

 

[taylortony]

Hi , Im a E-Goat virgin so sorry if this is not in the right place etc...

Well I am a fairy/lecky with various experiences from 1st to 3rd line, from fast jets to transport prop jobs and I have 3 years left to complete my 22, and a have a few questions for you guys!

I would like your advise to wether it is still worth these days going down the aircraft licences route or not.?

If so are there any courses run in a 40/50 mile radius of Staffordshire, I would like to attend a college/venue for exams near my home address rather than in south wales for example?

Finally is there anyone out there with any better ideas other than aircraft licensing?

I await your replies, thanks.

youi can do the modules by post as home study such as

http://www.part66.com/content/public/elearning/default.asp

lufthansa do one too

http://www.lrtt.co.uk/about-lrtt-easa-part66-training-organisation.html

others are Kingston Newcasle Bristol

http://www.whatuni.com/degrees/cour...6-B1-course-details/1542062/7934/cdetail.html

I kmow the odd Licenced Avionics engineer on £70 K! but don't get your hopes up straight away.

Failing that what about a company doing avionics repairs?


http://www.aviationjobsearch.com/jobs/avionics_electronics_jobs/

 

[tonkaplonka]

I left the RAF 3 years ago now and work on North Sea helicopters. I've been licensed for 2 years and have 2 type ratings. I would advise anybody leaving soon to start doing their licence as soon as possible. I work with 2 other LAE's on my shift, who are both aged 60+ and looking to retire in the near future. Things are starting to pick up again here, especially with oil at $110 a barrel and an ageing workforce. I would predict that in about 6 months, the adverts looking for LAE's will start again.
My advice is don't be afraid, get stuck into the modules and 12 months after leaving you'll be doing pretty much the same job as the RAF but earning about £50k before overtime!!
It also doesn't matter if all your experience is fixed wing, the 12 months experience rule still applies. As long as you have worked on live aircraft for a minimum of 4 years
Don't listen to any rumour mongers who are still serving, there's plenty of guys out here in the real world who can offer true advice on how to get your licence and the hurdles aren't that big.
It's all a bit of a no brainer really if you ask me.
This also applies to the folks getting out at their 22 point, you're still a youngster compared to some of the geriatrics on my shift!!

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

I left the RAF 3 years ago now and work on North Sea helicopters. I've been licensed for 2 years and have 2 type ratings. I would advise anybody leaving soon to start doing their licence as soon as possible. I work with 2 other LAE's on my shift, who are both aged 60+ and looking to retire in the near future. Things are starting to pick up again here, especially with oil at $110 a barrel and an ageing workforce. I would predict that in about 6 months, the adverts looking for LAE's will start again.
My advice is don't be afraid, get stuck into the modules and 12 months after leaving you'll be doing pretty much the same job as the RAF but earning about £50k before overtime!!
It also doesn't matter if all your experience is fixed wing, the 12 months experience rule still applies. As long as you have worked on live aircraft for a minimum of 4 years
Don't listen to any rumour mongers who are still serving, there's plenty of guys out here in the real world who can offer true advice on how to get your licence and the hurdles aren't that big.
It's all a bit of a no brainer really if you ask me.
This also applies to the folks getting out at their 22 point, you're still a youngster compared to some of the geriatrics on my shift!!

A very truthful post, but I would say the chances of getting a ticket, rating and approval after one year is more going to be luck and who your boss is at the mo. My company has said no training budget and is stacked up with mechanics waiting for a LT post to come available. Other MROs are the same. I am still trying to finish the log book to apply, but as I have said in previous posts, its who you know and what they wish.. :raf:

 

[Rigga]

The "Oily" helicopter world seems to be picking up as earlier described - I know that Bond Helicopters is giving AW139 courses to recently licenced people.

And that may be where Tonkaplonka works? NWI?


...if you need another B1.3...

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

The "Oily" helicopter world seems to be picking up as earlier described - I know that Bond Helicopters is giving AW139 courses to recently licenced people.

And that may be where Tonkaplonka works? NWI?


...if you need another B1.3...

Bristows said they aren't employing any mechanics in the near to meduim future. Different prehaps to having 1.3 I supose. I'm waiting to hear from a fairly large biz jet company anyway, who are possibly taking on..

 

[tonkaplonka]

The North Sea companies encourage their fitters to get their B1.3 asap with quite a few incentives such as paying for courses if you've done so many modules on your own and paying exam fees and expenses to the exam centres. They will also pay for the basic licence without approval. Most people get their approval pretty quickly though unless they're pretty crap or they were an apprentice without experience. All the ex-forces guys I know have been given their approval as soon as the type is on the licence.
Unfortunately getting in the door as a mechanic at the moment is not going to happen unless you're close to getting your B1.3 or have a fair few modules under your belt. You have more chance of getting a start as a B2 avionics type at the moment. The same applies to the avionics guys as well, they all need the modules doing.
I completed all my modules while i was still serving and finished with Mod 12 on resettlement. When I started, all I needed then was type courses.

 

[Rigga]

Nice to see someone can still plan ahead and complete their plan on exiting the mob.

...as I've always advised.

 

[Harry B'Stard]

Nice to see someone can still plan ahead and complete their plan on exiting the mob.

...as I've always advised.

Rigga,

Is there any time restriction associated with getting your Licences?

For example, I have six years left to my 22 (if I don't get made redundant against my wishes!) and I'm looking at what qualifications I should gain to set myself up for the big wide world.

I'm led to believe that obtaining your licences takes around 3 years (dependant upon the effort you apply). If I was to start now, this may leave me with 3 years left to serve whilst holding a licence. Is there a time limit or 'Expiry date' where you must have made use of your licences or is it a case of once obtained you've got it for life?

Would you recommend starting them now or leave it for another couple of years so that it would be more 'Fresh in my mind' as it were!

Thanks in advance

HTB

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

The North Sea companies encourage their fitters to get their B1.3 asap with quite a few incentives such as paying for courses if you've done so many modules on your own and paying exam fees and expenses to the exam centres. They will also pay for the basic licence without approval. Most people get their approval pretty quickly though unless they're pretty crap or they were an apprentice without experience. All the ex-forces guys I know have been given their approval as soon as the type is on the licence.
Unfortunately getting in the door as a mechanic at the moment is not going to happen unless you're close to getting your B1.3 or have a fair few modules under your belt. You have more chance of getting a start as a B2 avionics type at the moment. The same applies to the avionics guys as well, they all need the modules doing.
I completed all my modules while i was still serving and finished with Mod 12 on resettlement. When I started, all I needed then was type courses.

Finished all the B1.1 modules 2 years ago.DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

Rigga,

Is there any time restriction associated with getting your Licences?

For example, I have six years left to my 22 (if I don't get made redundant against my wishes!) and I'm looking at what qualifications I should gain to set myself up for the big wide world.

I'm led to believe that obtaining your licences takes around 3 years (dependant upon the effort you apply). If I was to start now, this may leave me with 3 years left to serve whilst holding a licence. Is there a time limit or 'Expiry date' where you must have made use of your licences or is it a case of once obtained you've got it for life?

Would you recommend starting them now or leave it for another couple of years so that it would be more 'Fresh in my mind' as it were!

Thanks in advance

HTB

There is changes coming through the regulatory authorities to increase the life span to 7 years. While not in force yet, its been rubber stamped by all the EASA NAA's by all accounts. At the moment modules without completing the set is 5 years. I've heard that with the full set, they are unlimited, others say only 1 to 5 are safe in this situation and others say not.. One person in the military have got the basic while still serving and not by the kingair route.
He played the CAA game and worked all spare hours, living near a MRO for choppers and build up the years worth of experience in hours.. Yeas he proved to the CAA that he worked 1600 odd hours in a PART 145 in the time scales of 6months prior and 6 months concurent. They gave him the ticket.. He was REME and as a 22 year bod, could stand himself down early in a day to do so! :raf:

 

[Dirty Harry]

HB,

The validity of examination passes does not expire providing you manage to attain all the modules within the required time frame (currently 5 years). People can and do start running into problems when they are approaching the 5 year point from passing their first exam and still have one or two modules left to complete. In this instance, the early exam passes will start to lapse and will need to be taken again.

I would say that 2 years is a realistic timescale for a forces guy to do his B1 or B2 modules. There is nothing difficult about the exams providing you are prepared to put the work in and in a lot of cases, you will be able to draw on past experience. Get yourself a good set of books and a copy of all the study notes from Oxford, LBP etc. that are doing the rounds on CD and you'll be fine.

One other point to note, you will not be able to hold a licence whilst still serving. You must acrue a minimum of 12 months civil experience in a Part-145 approved maintenance organisation to meet the requirements for basic licence issue. When I left I was fortunate to get a job as a mechanic with a major UK MRO in base maintenance working 'C' checks on a variety of Airbus and Boeing types. The work was wide and varied and I had no problems getting the necessary jobs to cover all ATA chapters in my civil logbook. I got my licence about 12 months after leaving. I know plenty of others (and ILLKC will testify to this) who have been out a few years and still haven't managed to get the basic licence. Even when you manage to get a licence, promotion to LAE status isn't automatic. You will find plenty of time served civvy mechanics sitting on licences who are waiting to make the step up. You will be in competition with these individuals for LAE vacancies as and when they become available. You've got to prove you are worth investing in as type training costs a lot of money, companies want a return on their investment. There is then the hurdle of getting the necessary OJT on type to get the rating and passing a quality board to get a company approval. A lot of forces guys get blinkered into thinking its just a case of passing a load of exams, if only it were that simple.

 

[Rigga]

HB,
DH has said all that I could and his advice is sound as a pound.

However I would advocate starting at 3 years so that you can cover OOA(?) detachments that may poke out of the blue and still remain inside the expiry time. This also gives you time for resits (you'd be surprised...) as required.

Yes, there is some movement towards a 7 year period, but you can't count on that arriving in time for your needs.

Best to plan your escape route now and be ready to implement it, as it's needed, when you're ready.

Hope this helps

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

One other point to note, you will not be able to hold a licence whilst still serving. You must acrue a minimum of 12 months civil experience in a Part-145 approved maintenance organisation to meet the requirements for basic licence issue.

You're right mate for B1.. But that isn't the same for B2s as far as the ELGD. I argued this to the REME guy on another forum. The REME bloke was B2 and the rules in the ELGD state differently for B2 to B1 on other recent experience. He got the licence while still in (just). Miffing but as the CAA say, application are looked on a case by case basis!:raf:

 

[tonkaplonka]

I managed to get all my modules completed in 2.5 years. that included two 3 month dets to sandy places. I also failed modules 2,3,5,7 essay and 8 at the first attempt. Fortunately I passed them all on the second go, after waiting the required 90 days for resits. So it's not plain sailing but definitely manageable. Module 3 was the biggest hurdle for me, being a non avionic type and nearly put me off doing the rest. So I'd recommend a course for the heavy types to complete that one!
As DH says it requires commitment but it is well worth it.
I can't understand all these experienced aircraft engineers giving up their well earned trade to work offshore and look at the sea for 2 weeks at a time or working for BT or as a plumber etc. I just have to look at all the jolly faces in our departure lounge to see that I made the right choice.

 

[Dirty Harry]

I can't understand all these experienced aircraft engineers giving up their well earned trade to work offshore and look at the sea for 2 weeks at a time or working for BT or as a plumber etc. I just have to look at all the jolly faces in our departure lounge to see that I made the right choice.

It's simple mate. Getting a licence and ultimately a job as a LAE in the civil aviation sector requires a lot of effort and hard work. Regardless of what you were or what you did in the military, nobody is going to hand it to you on a plate.

 

[tonkaplonka]

DH, you are right. What I was trying to say was, I find it a waste when people give up a good trade as an aircraft engineer for the sake of a couple of years of studying of a subject that they already know! I realise that people can be lazy and can't be arsed with studying anymore but the benefits definitely outweigh the downsides. It's not the easiest thing in the world, but on the other hand it's also not the hardest! I passed it and I was just a lowly JT sootie!!

 

[Throatarea]

Seeing how efficient waddington is at churning out LAEs, does manning/FSTA know that after getting their license and approval, with only a further 6 months logged OJT/type training they could be employed on voyager. Benefiting the service and their career development.

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

Seeing how efficient waddington is at churning out LAEs, does manning/FSTA know with only 6 months logged OJT/type training, they could be employed on voyager. Benefiting the service and their career development.

Career development is getting out! Why stay earning 36/40K as a SNCO, whe a decent Kingair lot outside will pay considerably more! True, a A330 ticket would be an incentive as an opening to other large CAT types especially other Airbus tickets, but do you really want the additional time away etc, when you have done so much time away for the first type! BTW 6 months OJT includes 50% of each relevent ATA tasks.. Not that easy to do on Base work and almost impossible on the line. Depends on how much lying you do..

 

[Rigga]

BTW 6 months OJT includes 50% of each relevent ATA tasks.. Not that easy to do on Base work and almost impossible on the line. Depends on how much lying you do..

Agreed. And if you and your Quality Manager ('Cos he has to back you up in your application) are caught lying (falsifying licence application details) you lose your Licence and you both lose your careers. Your names will run like a tsunami around the circuits. And it won't matter if you're in the Mob or not, if you have a pukkah EASA Licence, you'll lose it and you wont get a proper job.

Seen it, and seen the effects. Sad.