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ATC/FOA Amalgamation

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Hmmmm said:
PS. You lot can get your thieving hands off our Predator slots!!:PDT_Xtremez_06:
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Surely after amalamation "OUR" Predator slots!:PDT_Xtremez_32:

There will have to be an element of "suck it and see", I personnally think that it will be easier for non-specialists (controllers both ways and IDOs) to amalgamate than the specialists. Time will tell though and I think the Aerosystems Battle Management Trade Group has a nice ring to it!!:PDT_Xtremez_35:
 
How about Airspace Control???

A lot less war like so it won't upset anyone..................
 
FOMz said:
How about Airspace Control???

A lot less war like so it won't upset anyone..................
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The Airship's Vision is for an "Air Battle Management" Branch

That basically what we do to be honest, all our roles are directly involved in the delivery of Air Power whether Flt Ops or Aero Systems at the moment.

To answer an earlier question about OOA, there are people who for one reason or another cannot go OOA, as there are in all trades. TG12 is fairly unique in the provision of MT2.4, we do not all have to go to the war!

The shortages at the moment are in SNCO roles like IDO, now it is not the easiest job in the world as anyone who has passed the course will surely tell you, but it is also not beyond the reach of anyone. SNCO IDOs are getting sent to the FI within 6 months of finishing training. However as we all become IDOs at Sgt level then the current OOA burden will shift.

To answer Never Alert, only 1ACC, JFACCHQ, C-RAM and AOC(L) are supported by CMLO ERS. The "Purple" units use their own manpower on a rotation basis, although the personnel are doing 6 month tours in line with the Army. The C-RAM guys are lost to their parent units for about 7-8 months because of the time taken to train them prior to deployment. However, their kit has been highly sucessful in Basra and I feel that this is a deployment that will only get longer with a possible expansion for more kit in Telic and Herrick.

MT2.4 will always require a certain number of people to achieve. I know the minimum numbers involved because it is what I do for a living. Their is also the support to FJ training and exercises that also eats manpower. The CRCs may seem like an endless pool of bodies but that is changing (for the better in my opinion). There are also all the unestablished tasks within the UK that we provide personnel to.

I agree that you cannot compare the FI to Afganistan/Iraq. However, unless PJHQ revisit the FI manpower issue (which I believe is at minimum for TG12) then the commitment will not go away. People are volunteering for the non trade-specific jobs in Herrick/Telic because they can!

Fearless Leader I don't feel that guilty about not being able to deploy OOA, I will remain on shift for the rest of my career as an IDO, carrying out MT 2.4. Yes I would like the burden to be shared and take my turn but that is not my decision to make.
 
In a nutshell,

I think the ATC guys will be a little suprised at just how diverse TG12 taskings are. Plenty of good jobs out there.
 
I think that both TGs will be surprised with the variety of jobs out there. As for MT2.4, it's not just TG12 that has this at the top of their agenda.
 
Hmmmm said:
I think that both TGs will be surprised with the variety of jobs out there. As for MT2.4, it's not just TG12 that has this at the top of their agenda.
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Completely understand your sentiment Hmmmm, however there are a few peeps out there who do not really understand what we do!
 
FOMz said:
Feel free, I'll get you a shovel to dig her up.
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You see, that's the difference between the two trades; a tragicker offers me a shovel, whilst an ASOp would dig her up for me, wash her down and dress her up a bit with some Anne Summers underwear.

Attention to detail is everything...:PDT_Xtremez_15:
 
This rumour has been doing the rounds since I joined the Mob, and was often touted at me when I was based at Boulmer by mu Scopie mates (yes, cross-trade friendships can happen!)

In my view, it's no bad thing - essentially the jobs are by nature similar, and it will certainly alliviate the shortage of man-power we are currently experincing within TG9 at AC/Cpl level (although it could be agrued that this is down to previous bad trade management!)

I suspect that any TG12 cross-overs will not be available for JATCC? And also be utilised in a mainly ATC environment? Excuse my ignorance, but to TG12 bods have much experience with low-level bookings, NOTAMS, etc?
 
Never Alert said:
My point on streaming the branch 3 ways makes sense IMHO.
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Apologies for jumping into your play area, but a question for you.

If you are going to stream people, why bother amalgamating the two trades?
I ask as I have worked with both scopies and atc bods in my time (ex ground radio and AD stations), and have found that although the jobs are diverse, the basics are pretty similar and so should be managable by any competent member of both trades.
 
Dingbat said:
Apologies for jumping into your play area, but a question for you.

If you are going to stream people, why bother amalgamating the two trades?
I ask as I have worked with both scopies and atc bods in my time (ex ground radio and AD stations), and have found that although the jobs are diverse, the basics are pretty similar and so should be managable by any competent member of both trades.
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Ditto that Dingbat old boy!!
 
Some of the basics are the same....

You could say opposing ends of the same stick. When we say streaming, we mean in the controlling/non controlling sense.
 
FOMz said:
Some of the basics are the same....

You could say opposing ends of the same stick. When we say streaming, we mean in the controlling/non controlling sense.
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Thanks for the explanation, sort of makes a bit more sense now.

Fingers crossed it willl go more smoothly for you than the TG3/5/11 to TG4 debacle, at least you have the common ground to work from we never did.
 
FOMz said:
Some of the basics are the same....

You could say opposing ends of the same stick. When we say streaming, we mean in the controlling/non controlling sense.
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Agreed on the meaning of streaming for us too. Happens for SAC/Cpl going for SNCO FC and for SNCO ASMs to guage suitability for IDO duties. Shouldn't be too hard for a streaming board to include ATC in the mix. SAC/Cpls applying for SNCO FC have to take the FC test battery at OASC as it is, would imagine the scores required for ATC are somewhere in the same ballpark.

At the SAC FOA/ASOP level there is some crossover in jobs, SAC ASOPs do have knowledge of NOTAMS etc but as an end user rather than producing them. Similarly we have dealings with flight plans and the like. Cross training SACs should not pose too much of a problem IMHO. It is at J/SNCO level that some things can become more specialised (even for non-controllers) but the "new breed" super-scopie (for want of a better term) that an amalgamation would produce would eventually be able to progress onwards. In the words of SAKS (wish they still existed!!), "A trained man can..."

If this was a Utopian vision we would all be cross trained and able to do each other's jobs now. This is not the case and it would not be a surprise to me if, post amalgamation, the new SACs fly through the ranks (sure to put some noses out of joint!).

The key is more knowledge and less suspicions. FOMz & SSH, if you want to send some of your youngsters up here for a couple of days then give me a shout and I will arrange and host them. Similarly I hope the invitation could be reciprocated from the FOA/M world to give us all a better understanding of what the others do!
 
NotAnIDOYet said:
FOMz & SSH, if you want to send some of your youngsters up here for a couple of days then give me a shout and I will arrange and host them. Similarly I hope the invitation could be reciprocated from the FOA/M world to give us all a better understanding of what the others do!
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If I had some to spare, I most probably would.................
 
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