SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Tongue between a Scopies cheeks more like
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NotAnIDOYet
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Tongue between a Scopies cheeks more like
OOOOhhh look at her!
FOA/Ms, living proof that you are all gayers!
SSH, you know that there are certain laws that only let us breed amongst ourselves without special licence!
SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Sixtoedscopie.com
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
Sixtoedscopie.com
Jealous are we?
SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Is it true that Deliverance was filmed close to a CRC up North?
Fecking Banjo players
Fecking Banjo players
N
NotAnIDOYet
Guest
Is it true that Deliverance was filmed close to a CRC up North?
Fecking Banjo players
Yep and with my patented 12 finger technique I am a demon on the plucking!
N
Never Alert
Guest
Tongue between a Scopies cheeks more like
Yep, yours I suspect.
Standby to lose your precious Predator slots, just as soon as TG12 get to demonstrate what is actually meant by airspace battle management.
"Export 2, you're number 1 to land" doesn't quite cut it!!
Standing by for incoming...
SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Yep, yours I suspect.
Standby to lose your precious Predator slots, just as soon as TG12 get to demonstrate what is actually meant by airspace battle management.
"Export 2, you're number 1 to land" doesn't quite cut it!!
Standing by for incoming...
And your argument is?
Thing is me old, I can do ABM, ATC and Ops.
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
And your argument is?
Thing is me old, I can ABM and Ops
Depends what you mean by Ops SSH, in both our worlds it has differing meanings. I mean 24/7 surveillance of a defined area of airspace, identifying every airborne platform in accordance with defined criteria and acting as necessary to deter or in extremis destoy anything that shouldn't be there. Added into that is the RAF response to 9/11, which I will say has made TG12's job more relevant in today's world and put greater emphasis on the ASACS for the Airships.
TG12 personnel are also deployed worldwide currently with JFACC HQ, 16 Air Assault Brigade, AOCC(L), 1ACC, etcetera...
I do not deny that your trade is also feeling the pinch of two concurrent operations. The real fact is that the Ops Spt (FC) branch lead the way in ABM (we have been doing it for years, before it became fashionable!) and TG12 have been their in support. That is why the ABM specialists in the Army units have come from an OSB(FC)/TG12 background - we simply do it better, and possibly understand it better, than anyone else out there!
SirSaltyHelmet
Thoroughly Nice Chap
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See there is where it falls.To anyone in the real world, ie those of us that work on airfields know exactly what Ops is. In fact even techies know what Ops is, both Sqn and Stn Ops....
I was not refering to Ops as in deployed Ops
I was not refering to Ops as in deployed Ops
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
See there is where it falls.To anyone in the real world, ie those of us that work on airfields know exactly what Ops is. In fact even techies know what Ops is, both Sqn and Stn Ops....
I was not refering to Ops as in deployed Ops
Neither was I!
I work in an Ops Room, doing 24/7 Ops. WCs are the @rse end of the job who turn up occasionally, sleep their way through a nightshift and complain at anything and everything. Us Surveillance Operations types are soooo much better and have a greater understanding of everything going on around the Ops Room.
I agree Stn/Sqn Ops are busy places. I have never had the good fortune to work on an airfield (apart from deployments), but I still know the difference between your ops and my ops. Both provide a valuable service to different people.
J
juan kossof
Guest
It will be very interesting when the first TG12 gets to a Squadron Operations and is asked to do the myriad of daily tasks that are involved with running the Ops Desk.
I get distinct impression that the talk of amalgamation is purely involving the ATC side of the house (as usual). The fact is when the trades are amalgamated former scopies will be required to work in Ops Rooms, maybe the assimilation courses should focus more on this aspect of the TG9 job.
Purely my opinion...I could be talking hoop, it has been known!
I get distinct impression that the talk of amalgamation is purely involving the ATC side of the house (as usual). The fact is when the trades are amalgamated former scopies will be required to work in Ops Rooms, maybe the assimilation courses should focus more on this aspect of the TG9 job.
Purely my opinion...I could be talking hoop, it has been known!
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
It will be very interesting when the first TG12 gets to a Squadron Operations and is asked to do the myriad of daily tasks that are involved with running the Ops Desk.
I get distinct impression that the talk of amalgamation is purely involving the ATC side of the house (as usual). The fact is when the trades are amalgamated former scopies will be required to work in Ops Rooms, maybe the assimilation courses should focus more on this aspect of the TG9 job.
Purely my opinion...I could be talking hoop, it has been known!
I've said it before but I'll say it again...
A Trained Man Can...
17 yrs and I have only been in a CRC for 5 years of that, and one year was as an LAC - 2 days after I became an SAC I left Neats CRC.
The other four years, because I upset the drafter.
I have been really lucky over the years, each posting I have had has been to a totally different job.
Most of the 'diverse' tasks which both trades do require similar experience/previous knowledge, but mostly require some form of OJT or additional training. And a number of the 'diverse' jobs which everyone tries to protect themselves over are if you really think about it admin/filing tasks where experience or knowledge of the RAF operational environment is a useful addition.
I am sure that with the appropriate amount of OJT or specialist training either trade could carry out ALL of the others tasks to the levels of the individuals capabilities.
Seeing as both trades have identical education requirements, the only different reason people are pushed into either trade is which the AFCOs have been told they need recruits for.
The other four years, because I upset the drafter.
I have been really lucky over the years, each posting I have had has been to a totally different job.
Most of the 'diverse' tasks which both trades do require similar experience/previous knowledge, but mostly require some form of OJT or additional training. And a number of the 'diverse' jobs which everyone tries to protect themselves over are if you really think about it admin/filing tasks where experience or knowledge of the RAF operational environment is a useful addition.
I am sure that with the appropriate amount of OJT or specialist training either trade could carry out ALL of the others tasks to the levels of the individuals capabilities.
Seeing as both trades have identical education requirements, the only different reason people are pushed into either trade is which the AFCOs have been told they need recruits for.
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It will be very interesting when the first TG12 gets to a Squadron Operations and is asked to do the myriad of daily tasks that are involved with running the Ops Desk.
I get distinct impression that the talk of amalgamation is purely involving the ATC side of the house (as usual). The fact is when the trades are amalgamated former scopies will be required to work in Ops Rooms, maybe the assimilation courses should focus more on this aspect of the TG9 job.
Purely my opinion...I could be talking hoop, it has been known!
In 1995, 1996, while on post as a trainer for a certain RAF nation-wide computer system, I was det both years to LU to provide guidance during an annual exercise, others were det to LI and CY. At the time there were SAC ASOps in all 3 Wg Ops (as alluded to in other posts). We discovered that there were vast differences between all locations as to how the ASOps were employed.
CY hardly used them at all because that they were downright ignorant and saw this as a threat to their AATC establishment - as stated to my colleague who went there. But then again, they weren't much cop as they were at the top of the System Security boys' league for security violations - some of the stories I could relate!!
LI used their Scopies to great effect and, I believe, asked if there were more available. They were considered a godsend as they enlightened the workload so much.
As far as I could see, LU was in the middle and used their Scopies OK but not far enough as they told me they were bored and felt they were not trusted to do more tasks.
It was clear to me that at the time the ATC mob clearly were confused as to what TG12 can do (with a bit of guidance and OJT!!!) as well as being ignorant about our normal roles in AD Ops Rooms. Slightly annoyed that there were GD (FC)s at all 3 who didn't seem to get together to thrash this out. Maybe they did later?
Fearless Leader
Corporal
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Slightly annoyed that there were GD (FC)s at all 3 who didn't seem to get together to thrash this out. Maybe they did later?
And isn't that part our wider problems? That we have a management that spends 18 months to 2 years in a job before moving on to get their next merit badge and they put no investment in to the task while they're doing it? Because of endles reorganisations I have had a different first RO every year for the past 7 years.
My own Wingco came down last week and said he didn't think there was a requirement for my team, yet the RN are investing millions for the future in exactly what I do! Maybe I should remuster to the senior service??? LOL.
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
And isn't that part our wider problems? That we have a management that spends 18 months to 2 years in a job before moving on to get their next merit badge and they put no investment in to the task while they're doing it? Because of endles reorganisations I have had a different first RO every year for the past 7 years.
My own Wingco came down last week and said he didn't think there was a requirement for my team, yet the RN are investing millions for the future in exactly what I do! Maybe I should remuster to the senior service??? LOL.
All RAF officers do this so it is slightly lame and naive to use that as an excuse! We are our own worst enemies at times and SNCOs/WOs occasionally need to do more standing up and being counted. Yes I know it can lead to a trip to the Wingco's office but is that not why we are paid the money and given the stripes?
Bosses will also always me trying to save money, if your section is truly indispenable then prove it, hard to get rid of if you are providing your boss with a valuable service. The argument that another service is investing heavily does not make it necessarily right for us.
We all need to be less parochial in our outlook and start doing things that are for the good of the trade rather than the individuals. As I have said in a post above these changes are too late for some of us, it is the legacy we leave to the people who join tomorrow and are our future NCOs that is important.
Fearless Leader
Corporal
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If you clamber out of the R3 and pop up and see me in the SFC I'll show you the paper I wrote 4 years ago outlining the future training developments being undertaken by the USAF, our own RN and the Army.
The sticking factor was mainly lack of money, as our own service wanted to spend its money on funding other projects. That's fine as long as it's understood by our branch we have no NEC training capbility unlike the people we will be expected to go OOA with.
That' s not parochialism, that's a cold hard fact. We are unable at present and will remain unable for for the future to "Train As We Fight".
I have been fighting for the past 5 years till I have been blue in the face writing point briefs and letters and ultimately I was told to wind my neck in.
How many papers have you put your name to CG???
The sticking factor was mainly lack of money, as our own service wanted to spend its money on funding other projects. That's fine as long as it's understood by our branch we have no NEC training capbility unlike the people we will be expected to go OOA with.
That' s not parochialism, that's a cold hard fact. We are unable at present and will remain unable for for the future to "Train As We Fight".
I have been fighting for the past 5 years till I have been blue in the face writing point briefs and letters and ultimately I was told to wind my neck in.
How many papers have you put your name to CG???
N
Never Alert
Guest
And your argument is?
Thing is me old, I can do ABM, ATC and Ops.
I would imagine that your ABM knowledge would be rather limited compared to the FC guys. It's their job & they are the only non aircrew branch that does it on a large scale.
Unless of course you have a completely different idea on what ABM is?
NAIDY,
how dare you suggest that we bimble in an out of the ops room on a random basis. It's a carefully planned exercise that is designed to make us look busy at all times.