Welcome to E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial Royal Air Force Rumour Network
Join our free community to unlock a range of benefits like:
  • Post and participate in discussions.
  • Send and receive private messages with other members.
  • Respond to polls and surveys.
  • Upload and share content.
  • Gain access to exclusive features and tools.
Join 7.5K others today

Corona virus

  • Following weeks of work, the E-GOAT team are delighted to present to you a new look to the forums with plenty of new features. Take a look around and see what you think!
Well you linked the Mirror.

Nobody with an ounce of common would link to one newspaper and then tell people to read another one.

Why not link to the Times ?
Read the post again. I was asked do I have any evidence or was it just anecdotal. So I gave another link for the evidence.
 
Our very own Momentum buddy JIT has caught what the rest of the pistol whipped Socialist left wing sector is bathing themselves in...20:20 hindsight. "Its clear that now I have seen the results I can now categorically suggest that what the Government has done was wrong'. Well done chaps...well done.

The playbook for this is being written day by day for the next generation (hopefully a number of generations in the future actually) to refer back to it and handle this in a more informed way. I can hardly bring myself to watch the BBC or Sky News channels anymore as the reporting rather than broadcasting opinions has diminished to the point of not existing so I flick around the selection available from around the world on Sky Broadcasting. Its refreshing to do so as sometimes you get some decent reporting on what it actually happening not what Kay Burley or Kuntsberg thinks. Guess what? Many European countries are short of PPE...Spain especially but not limited to there. If you didn't have a large manufacturing base making it in house then your war stocks get eaten up at an extraordinary rate...I'm guessing more than the original forecasts set out?
 
It's not just about the lack of PPE. Its the advice on telling clinicians not to waste PPE, telling clinicians to reuse single use PPE. Lack of testing for Covid19. Slow response to what was happening in Europe and the rest of the world.
 
It's not just about the lack of PPE. Its the advice on telling clinicians not to waste PPE, telling clinicians to reuse single use PPE. Lack of testing for Covid19. Slow response to what was happening in Europe and the rest of the world.
I think the NHS and PHE leadership need to have a period of reflection on this, not on their preparedness but more on their response as the crisis has progressed, if I’m Feeling kind I’d like to think that they are struggling with absent staff like the rest of society, however there’s plenty of anecdotal statements about support not being taken up.

I don’t see any issue with telling clinicians not to waste PPE and if the PPE is safe to reuse I don’t see any issue with that advice either. How many cancer treatments or organ transplant would have not been carried out if the NHS had spent the funds on stock piling PPE instead, we’ll never know.

With regards the rest of Europe and world, firstly no two situations are the same and secondly the press are quick to highlight where others have had success, but don’t seem to focus on their issues, the second wave now in China, the failure of track and trace in Singapore for just two, Italy and Spain aren’t doing too well either.

Personally I think it’s great that most people out there are sticking to the rules, I’m proud of the front line NHS workers getting stuck in, I think the Nightingale Hospitals being set up quick time as amazing and I am also pleased that the government changed its advice which has enabled the NHS to cope With demand.
 
I agree with a lot of what you say but disagree on the use of PPE. If the manufacturer says it's single use then there must be a reason for them to say that plus you'd be going infection control policies. Secondly I don't think any clinician would waste PPE and to be told otherwise is frankly outrageous
 
Last edited:
Hardly a debate when you post links from the Guardian and earlier the Mirror...what's next? The Socialist Worker?

There are layers of 'Government' and obviously, because Labour want to be in power, they concentrate of blaming the upper echelons of power for absolutely everything but I offer a different view point hard earned from personal experience.

I'm not going to say who I was working for but I was reasonably far up the greasy pole there but still had to follow rules put in place by public finances despite working for a large manufacturer. There is a level of government and a group of workers who don't change out after a GE...these are civil servants. So when I needed to buy something for one of my projects (let's say an Item of IT like a blade server for example) I had to use public money to do that (defence project funded by tax payers money...as were my wages etc). I had to follow the process put in place by my Public Finance Officer (who spent a deal of time on site with us...mainly shouting at people and getting 'ansty') to make this purchase.

This involved a number of stages...1. Fill out quite lengthy form explaining what I was trying to achieve and what I needed to buy. 2. Once that was approved go out to quotation for the item from an approved supplier...often up to three of them. 3. Attach the reasoning, its approval and the quote to a cover sheet and send it in snail mail to the first name on the list for approval and the list was long.

Most if not all tech quotes have a validity...and for IT items the prices change quickly. Mine were always 30 days validity but the bundle of paperwork I needed to make the purchase regularly took longer than 30 days on its journey around various departments, many of them involving the Civil Service. When I finally got them back I would see that the quote had run out so quickly ask for another. The price 70% of the time had changed which invalidated the cover sheet so I had to do it all over again. We called it the procurement death spiral. The longest one of these went on for was nearly 6 moths before I got one back in under 30 days...meanwhile a project had stalled and its team sat around or worse, assigned to another job and lost forever in some cases.

I wonder if this bares resemblance to what is happening now in PPE procurement? I found that most of my CS's weren't of a high enough grade to change any of it and weren't prepared to stick their head above the parapet to criticise it too much (if they wanted that next assignment or promotion). 'Government' procurement has long been an issue in this country under Labour or Tory...and this is where, perhaps, some of the issues lay?
 
Hardly a debate when you post links from the Guardian and earlier the Mirror...what's next? The Socialist Worker?

There are layers of 'Government' and obviously, because Labour want to be in power, they concentrate of blaming the upper echelons of power for absolutely everything but I offer a different view point hard earned from personal experience.

I'm not going to say who I was working for but I was reasonably far up the greasy pole there but still had to follow rules put in place by public finances despite working for a large manufacturer. There is a level of government and a group of workers who don't change out after a GE...these are civil servants. So when I needed to buy something for one of my projects (let's say an Item of IT like a blade server for example) I had to use public money to do that (defence project funded by tax payers money...as were my wages etc). I had to follow the process put in place by my Public Finance Officer (who spent a deal of time on site with us...mainly shouting at people and getting 'ansty') to make this purchase.

This involved a number of stages...1. Fill out quite lengthy form explaining what I was trying to achieve and what I needed to buy. 2. Once that was approved go out to quotation for the item from an approved supplier...often up to three of them. 3. Attach the reasoning, its approval and the quote to a cover sheet and send it in snail mail to the first name on the list for approval and the list was long.

Most if not all tech quotes have a validity...and for IT items the prices change quickly. Mine were always 30 days validity but the bundle of paperwork I needed to make the purchase regularly took longer than 30 days on its journey around various departments, many of them involving the Civil Service. When I finally got them back I would see that the quote had run out so quickly ask for another. The price 70% of the time had changed which invalidated the cover sheet so I had to do it all over again. We called it the procurement death spiral. The longest one of these went on for was nearly 6 moths before I got one back in under 30 days...meanwhile a project had stalled and its team sat around or worse, assigned to another job and lost forever in some cases.

I wonder if this bares resemblance to what is happening now in PPE procurement? I found that most of my CS's weren't of a high enough grade to change any of it and weren't prepared to stick their head above the parapet to criticise it too much (if they wanted that next assignment or promotion). 'Government' procurement has long been an issue in this country under Labour or Tory...and this is where, perhaps, some of the issues lay?
So maybe it needs a minister with the balls, someone who is prepared to put the health of our care workers first, to say get this PPE manufacturers and well sort out the paperwork later.

BTW I'll post links from right wing papers which say the same thing. Look further than what paper it is.
 
So maybe it needs a minister with the balls, someone who is prepared to put the health of our care workers first, to say get this PPE manufacturers and well sort out the paperwork later.

BTW I'll post links from right wing papers which say the same thing. Look further than what paper it is.

Please do! Not sure what power they have over the civil service...Look what happened to Priti Patel when she moved one on and we've mostly all seen 'Yes Minister'...a parody riddled with truth apparently.
 
Please do! Not sure what power they have over the civil service...Look what happened to Priti Patel when she moved one on and we've mostly all seen 'Yes Minister'...a parody riddled with truth apparently.
It's not about the CS., Johnson has assembled a cabinet of yes men/women and won't do anything to jeopardize their careers.
 
It's not about the CS., Johnson has assembled a cabinet of yes men/women and won't do anything to jeopardize their careers.
I gave you a personal insight into why one form of Government procurement patently didn't work...Not made up by a reporter desperate for column inches that will sell...Now you back up your statement above with links to prove what you have just claimed?
 
I gave you a personal insight into why one form of Government procurement patently didn't work...Not made up by a reporter desperate for column inches that will sell...Now you back up your statement above with links to prove what you have just claimed?
I Don't see anybody capable of stepping up to the mark and leading us through this crisis.
This is a time of a national emergency I'm sure if some minister had the wherewithal, it could be done.

How about the short time it took to convert Hercules to air to air refuellers.

What is it they say Necessity is the mother of invention
 
Last edited:
I Don't see anybody capable of stepping up to the mark and leading us through this crisis.
This is a time of a national emergency I'm sure if some minister had the wherewithal, it could be done.

How about the short time it took to convert Hercules to air to air refuellers.

What is it they say Necessity is the mother of invention
So no links then? Just your usual monotonous political bias...at a time when we need to pull together as a nation? Just as the party you doggedly follow incorrectly and spectacularly mid-judged the mood of the nation around Brexit they are starting to do it again...it’s like you can’t help it...ingrained to blame, to detract, to further isolate yourselves.
 
Last edited:
So know links then? Just your usual monotonous political bias...at a time when we need to pull together as a nation? Just as the party you doggedly follow incorrectly and spectacularly mid-judged the mood of the nation around Brexit they are starting to do it again...it’s like you can’t help it...ingrained to blame, to detract, to further isolate yourselves.
Where have I mentioned labour. There's no political bias. I'm sure that if labour were in charge and making a dog's dinner of it, the majority of posters on here would be having a field day.

What links do you want me to post.
 
Here's someone who doesn't believe the Times, give it a listen. The bloke is no Tory supporter.

I'm surprised that you would take a Murdoch journal at face value.

If you use their own headlines and reporting you can pull most of the report apart .
 
Here's someone who doesn't believe the Times, give it a listen. The bloke is no Tory supporter.

I'm surprised that you would take a Murdoch journal at face value.

If you use their own headlines and reporting you can pull most of the report apart .
Really Majid Narez. Have you read the article.
 
On a different tack it's time to own up!! We are all friends in here so you can tell us about your extreme PPE fetish.


Are you the Gimp man of Essex?
 
Back
Top