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Let's face it. This isn't about independence and it isn't about the EU. It's all about one daft mare who's watched Braveheart a few too many times and wants to be the Queen of Scotland.
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fourteen2two
Corporal
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I have only one question.
Were the British public too stupid to be allowed to vote in the 2016 referendum?
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Yes, on both sides, but that’s democracy for you.
Yep, there goes the remaining oil and fishing the SNP are relying on.
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Scotland doesn't want Brexit?? I did . As in all these referendums/polls it is a narrow thing. I wish Wee Nippy would GTF. She may think an Independent Scotland would be good and get her a statue on George St, but the country would be ruined before the casters could take measurements.
SAXAVORDIAN
Sergeant
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So what will the benefit be, if Scotland got their deep desire for independence and applied for EU fully. As I suspect EU is on a rocky path in regards to revenue. Only the financial side comes from the major countries in EU boundaries. They maybe a high producer of car companies and other areas but that can only go so far. Scotland is really no different to Greece except bloody colder. EU itself is at a crux whether to be a United States under one flag or a squabbling glorified council. The experiment to introduce MEPs to Britain to represent regions of Britain, showed a flaw in the purpose of having the Lords and Houses of Parliament. If and a very big IF Brexit failed and we all joined hands to marry ourselves to EU grass greener. Then Scotland part of Britain becomes a region governed by EU elected MEPs under a Northwest sector of Europe including France Belgium Holland. So in affect Scotland will have to ask Brussels for income not given a budget from NWEU department. Having a USofE similar to USA or Russia CIS still relies on central control One language One revenue currency and One Flag. Please Scots if you're happy to depart, so be it, but remember the door can close for good.
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Yes; but they should understand that unpicking 3 centuries of political, economic and social union will be infinitely more difficult than unpicking 50 years of purely trading union and we have seen how difficult that is. The UK had never joined the Euro so already had the, relatively stable, £ for example, what currency will Scotland have? How will they unpick their finances from the rest of the UKs? FWIW, I'm surprised that no-one has raised the point that there is already a well established precedent for this just 100 years ago...
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I think the Irish link is a bit out of date, the government is so much bigger these days and does so much more.
although like the Irish separation this is about sovereignty and control, which is where it conflicts with jumping straight back in to the EU, ever closer union and all that.
although like the Irish separation this is about sovereignty and control, which is where it conflicts with jumping straight back in to the EU, ever closer union and all that.
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The SNP are the ones arguing about taking back their own destiny, this isn't an option if you also state that you want to join the EU, a bit of a cake and eat it situation.
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Can't see where that comes from, this looks more like telling your family you're off out for a steak, but visiting a vegan restaurant.
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Edited for accuracy.
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Before it can join the EU it will have to demonstrate that it is fit to do so - and that includes its fiscal position, which means it must have a currency.... What will that be before it joins the EU (which could take a couple of years IF the EU is willing to have them). Or does it want to leave the UK but still trade on the basis of the strength of the UK's currency? Being out of the club but using the club's facilities.....?
SAXAVORDIAN
Sergeant
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Actually there is nothing Scotland adopting a local currency akin to the Totnes pound or similar. Let say an White Anglo-Saxon gentleman like myself, goes to Scotland on a very very very very rare or dragged kicking and screaming or kidnapped better way of saying this. The idea would be to exchange my own current currency to the local Glaswegian kiss variety or Edinburgh Inverness Aberdeen Lerwick or Kirkwall pound. This would be recognised by each local authority to ensure goods and local produce financially kept there. Totnes I think still maintain this and when you wish to leave the town or city, what residue of local cash normally exchange back to the fine butter wouldn't melt in mouth English pounds and coinage.
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I can see Faslane being declared a new Sovereign Territory like Akrotiri - but without the weather, obviously.
The myth that Nikki will have trouble joining the EU is totally wrong, in my view. The EU will throw the gates open for her and she will throw her population through their doors...
Why?
Fishing and Oil....Scots Fishing Rights will cut off the NorthEast and North West of the (former) UK Fishing Rights and the EU will gain a substantial oil field (and all to the detriment of the Scots population, btw).
The myth that Nikki will have trouble joining the EU is totally wrong, in my view. The EU will throw the gates open for her and she will throw her population through their doors...
Why?
Fishing and Oil....Scots Fishing Rights will cut off the NorthEast and North West of the (former) UK Fishing Rights and the EU will gain a substantial oil field (and all to the detriment of the Scots population, btw).
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Plus not a long term benefit as we lurch towards zero by 2050. I realise oil based products other than vehicle and power station fuel but it’s where a shitload of it goes now.
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It’s a tricky future for oil, the economies of scale of petrol and diesel is based on people buying loads of it, as this use reduces, the cost per unit, unless another use is found, will increase. As this reduces demand further, the by products of oil currently being used in plastics and other products become more scarce so knock on impact is that their price will also increase leading to a move to other products.
The golden ticket of North Sea and Atlantic fishing grounds could also be impacted by the outer islands seeking independence, perhaps becoming crown dependencies, it would be a bit complicated for them to rejoin the UK. The islands would probably use exactly the same argument the SNP have used to justify their own independence vote and are small enough and viable enough to exist and prosper outside of the mainland.
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Don’t kid yerself by thinking oil will disappear. One industry is trying to move to electric (and head first into a huge eco-disaster). Oil will be making the world go around for the next 100+ years. Maybe not so much in cars, but all other machines, like aviation, and whole industries will still need proper lubrication if not fuel.
A loss of Fishing Rights is the way that an independent Britain will eventually fail and be forced to rejoin the EU. What if Wales and NI also go independent - where are their Fishing Rights? - and England’s Right of Access to the Atlantic?
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There's going to be a change to the global oil industry, major players are already looking forward, BP/Shell divesting into green energy, Aramco investing heavily in oil based products, no industry can survive a loss of 65% of its demand and expect to be the same on the other side.
The fishing industry isn't economically significant to the UK, even less so to a separate English economy or if you separate out the foreign owned UK fleet.
The fishing industry isn't economically significant to the UK, even less so to a separate English economy or if you separate out the foreign owned UK fleet.
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That’s entirely my point about the oil industry. Cars may (mistakenly) move to batteries until something else turns up. Lorries may do so for short range deliveries - not for longer ranges, I believe. But aviation and maritime industries won’t/can’t move too far from carbon fuels for a great many years yet and other industries will be unable to move to batteries...diesel and petrol generators will still be required as well as heavy transport and lubrication of almost all machinery. Change will come but not dissolvement.
You’re right about fishing being a small industry, but its not about the industry, it’s about the square miles of fishing territory that could be handed over to the EU again - But, this time, surrounding England meagre 12 mile limit and increasing EU ‘bargaining’ power - more than enough to make England squirm.