Freeeeedom! The Scottish Independence Thread

[UlsterExile]

Personally i would let her have the vote and if scotland want to leave, let them. But make sure we only leave with a proportion of what they are entitled to and no more. Too many big questions that they keep avoiding, which you actually need to run a country. There will be plenty of other parts of the UK who would welcome jobs and industry. Stick the wall up and get boarder control on the go.

The people I feel sorry for will be those who want to stay part of the UK

 

[Barch]

Let her have another referendum on the proviso that should the population vote to stay she resigns immediately.

 

[Rigga]

Dont get me wrong - I‘m not anti-separation, if that is their ‘democratic’ decision. But I also think if they separate then it is complete and utter severance and follow that separation with trade negotiations. By which I mean no trade negotiations before separation. That period will leave them with the experience of the total self-sufficiency of actual independence and impress upon them the need for as soft a border as possible.
With few ports and less airports, imports will be expensive by sea and air alone. The road link to the EU through UK is important to their economy...in my opinion.

 

[busby1971]

Personally I don’t think the result would have any impact on what the SNP would be saying today, their lines today are too well practiced.

If they can’t get a majority of the vote, despite avoiding making this election an independence issue, then how can they say this is the democratic will of the people.

They have already started with the combative language and despite being poked by Marr this morning you can see that the Cabinet are aware of this and are trying their best to be more unionist and collaborative.

They should respect the last referendum and then after 18 years have passed allow another one, not forgetting it was a Tory led government that granted the last one.

 

[Past Engineering]

The UK gained £14 billion a year post leaving the EU, if Scotland break away from the rest of the UK they would lose £32 billion that they currently enjoy thru the Barnett formula, the biggest market for Scottish exports is the rest of the UK, they export nowhere near as much to the EU and will cost more to transport their goods to the EU, I would love to know from Sturgeon and her supporters who is going to make up that shortfall when they leave and pay the additional costs of leaving they would incur, do they honestly believe the EU will buy more stuff from Scotland and make a donation anywhere near what they would lose.

Oil won’t make up that shortfall as they will not get anymore than they get now out of it and being independent they will more likely lose out there as well.

 

[Barch]

I've heard on the grapevine that Dianne Abbott has been moonlighting as her financial advisor.

 

[vim_fuego]

The more I see from the Scots on social media the more I think ‘let them have another one’. They are fairly whipped up on the ‘being ruled by Westmonster’ angle.

If they vote to leave they must pick up their fair share of the national debt and play nicely when carving up the military (so they proportionally have what they need). We can agree decent trade deals and border process (why cut off your nose etc) and we’ll give them a decent start...but then they go it alone and what will be will be.

They are convinced they can make it work. We should, without prejudice, allow them to find out for themselves. If they achieve stability and growth then happy days...if it goes pear shaped they can look to wee nippy for answers.

 

[Oldstacker]

So when it comes to carving up the military; what do we think they should get - a pro rata proportion per head of population of the Typhoon force? How many aircraft would that be? Not enough to form a viable force, i'll warrant. Poseidons? What would they do with 1 - 2 C17s?

 

[busby1971]

I wouldn’t expect them to have a proper military, a few regiments of infanteers, and a fleet of OPVs for fishery protection and coast guard type activities.

Sturgeon has been clear that they want to be a small country so unless they join NATO that’ll be it, can’t see them having an Air Force.

 

[vim_fuego]

So when it comes to carving up the military; what do we think they should get - a pro rata proportion per head of population of the Typhoon force? How many aircraft would that be? Not enough to form a viable force, i'll warrant. Poseidons? What would they do with 1 - 2 C17s?

She’ll know the problems they’ll face re providing the public services v potential income from tax and trade. She’ll not want to increase the burden by requesting big ticket items like complex fighters, ships or subs. I think she’ll go for sufficient small vessels for fishery protection and border control, some logistical transport and troops, mainly for civil assistance rather than being a credible force. The interesting piece to all this will be who’s going to operate the assets.

Alternatively, as mentioned before, she could agree to some bases remaining in whatever the Uk is labelled as after, in their original locations...a bit like Akrotiri. That would solve some of those, what must be nagging funding issues.

 

[muttywhitedog]

The noises coming out of Tory mouths yesterday was significantly different. Gove saying that they wouldnt take the SNP to court and that right now the home nations should be concentrating on recovery from the pandemic is a world away from "We will not be approving a referendum in this parliament"

I reckon there'll be a referendum some time during the next 3 years, and if the Scots vote to leave, so be it. But as others say, they take a barnett formula share of the debt and 100% of the cost of any scots that reside in England/Wales/Ireland. The construction of any border is funded by them (because they want separation) as is the cost of import/export checks.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

I suppose it depends how you look at the numbers

1,364,656 - Con, Lab, Lib dem
1, 326,194 - SNP, Greens

The parties who want independence got less votes than the those who don't.

There'll be another referendum in the next 3 years Nippy will stamp her little feet till she gets what she wants.
Then it'll be a waiting game to see how they'll spin the finances and plans this time.
My wife's Scottish and she's already said what she did last time we went through this - if the votes yes we're leaving.

 

[Tin basher]

They are convinced they can make it work. We should, without prejudice, allow them to find out for themselves. If they achieve stability and growth then happy days...if it goes pear shaped they can look to wee nippy for answers.

I am certainly no national economy expert but it seems Scotland needs to have a financial comfort blanket to prop up the system and survive whether that's London or Brussels. It appears to be to small to generate the wealth needed to pay for the SNP grand plan on it's own.

 

[busby1971]

I am certainly no national economy expert but it seems Scotland needs to have a financial comfort blanket to prop up the system and survive whether that's London or Brussels. It appears to be to small to generate the wealth needed to pay for the SNP grand plan on it's own.

Some companies will have to leave Scotland as they will unbalance the economy, if we had another financial crisis like 2008 the Scottish government would not be in a place to rescue banks like the nasty Westminster gubbinment did with RBS.

But hey, as long as the electorate are well informed and understand matters like that, then what's the issue.

 

[Oldstacker]

I suppose it depends how you look at the numbers

1,364,656 - Con, Lab, Lib dem
1, 326,194 - SNP, Greens

The parties who want independence got less votes than the those who don't.

That's on a 63% turnout of a total electorate of 4,280,785 so she got 30% of the Scottish electorate in favour of her plans and 31% against. It could be close...... Although this election wasn't supposed to be about independence, wee nippy made it clear that she would go ahead if she got a majority so she should be nervous that 70% of the electorate were not prepared to come out and back her....

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

Nope simple answer Scotland become a Republic like Ireland did. Ireland survive on a small military or were financially backed by USA for the cause brothers. Not forgetting Libya. Scots around the globe can equally put hands in their pocket to support Scotland and get arms from Russia China or North Korea for the cause. If Scotland continue on the cause for independence in the vain hope that Westminster will grant another referendum. Then we in England will never hear the end of it, so only solution for Scots is declare yourselves a Republic and renounce the monarchy.

 

[Tin basher]

so only solution for Scots is declare yourselves a Republic and renounce the monarchy.

Or with a population roughly the same size as a Yorkshire (pop 5.40M) they could declare themselves to be "Scotlandshire" (pop 5.46M) and become England's newest county.

 

[vim_fuego]

Taking into consideration that the SNP exists almost solely right now for the purpose of gaining independence a couple of posers:

1. What would they call themselves if they achieve it? Being a nationalist party in an independent Scotland sounds a bit aggressive after the point; and
2. What happens if the vote is 'No' again...lets say by a similar or slightly larger (unlikely) margin? Does the SNP lose it mandate or does it just keep on trying until its gets the result it wants (sound familiar)? How many goes at it should they have?

There is a sort of imbalance caused by mix of voter apathy in elections and emotional actions from those that can be arsed to turn out that keep the SNP in firmly in power. The Brexit vote got an unprecedented 72.1% voter turnout and a result that wasn't expected. Perhaps that needs to happen North of the Border to find out the true feelings of the majority?

 

[Barch]

Taking into consideration that the SNP exists almost solely right now for the purpose of gaining independence a couple of posers:

1. What would they call themselves if they achieve it? Being a nationalist party in an independent Scotland sounds a bit aggressive after the point; and
2. What happens if the vote is 'No' again...lets say by a similar or slightly larger (unlikely) margin? Does the SNP lose it mandate or does it just keep on trying until its gets the result it wants (sound familiar)? How many goes at it should they have?

There is a sort of imbalance caused by mix of voter apathy in elections and emotional actions from those that can be arsed to turn out that keep the SNP in firmly in power. The Brexit vote got an unprecedented 72.1% voter turnout and a result that wasn't expected. Perhaps that needs to happen North of the Border to find out the true feelings of the majority?

Any agreement for a referendum should include the caveat that Sturgeon MUST resign immediately a NO vote is confirmed.

 

[Oldstacker]

Any agreement for a referendum should include the caveat that Sturgeon MUST resign immediately a NO vote is confirmed.

And that any NO result is to be binding for at least 10 (better 25?) years to try and make those making the YES case answer the hard questions about funding etc and prevent the next Scottish parliament election becoming yet another "a vote for us is a vote for an independent nirvana" mantra. You're either out & you'd better know what you're letting yourself in for before you vote YES or you're staying in and you will shut up & make it work.