Future of TG17

[KingGuin]

[QUOTE Not the best idea IMHO. As TG17, we are usually serving in digital posts on Wgs/Sqns these days and how can we help the guys who need the most help if we are moved willy-nilly around the Sqns or the Stn? We need to identify with those that we are assisting and how can we do that if we know that in 18/12/6 months, we will be moved out of that Unit and into another and don't need to give a F***? The workers will do their damndest to help people as much as they can, but the blaggers will, as usual, get away with doing snot all and get the Prom recs as they can talk the talk and BS their way into getting the next rank up.
Unit Clks are a great way of learning what the RAF is all about, whether it be in 1 Sqn Rock Central or TCW. It aids us in empathising with the people that are deploying and knowing how much pain Joe/Joanna Bloggs is going through as he/she is posted within 2 weeks of returning from being OOA as rough examples. We also need to ensure that the kids straight out of training are properly supervised so that they know what is expected of them and they can aim towards the lofty heights of Sneck-dom.[/QUOTE]

Borderlyne I find your opinion interesting however:
1. Digital Posts on Wgs/Sqns - not for much longer. PFA footprint will advocate devolvement under control of Chf Clk/WO PMS.
2. Needing Help - do you think those in "digital TG 17 posts" are best placed to determine whom/where Stn wide needs most help?
3. Time in post - We make it work OOA, why not elsewhere. I suggest this is more about taking a clerk out of their comfort zone than anything else.
4. Blaggers - With the FMDL at the current level and staffing critical across the board I wonder if we still have blaggers? I can honestly say there are none where I work.
5. OOA empathy etc - I am going OOA - again - a number of my clerks are currently OOA with more about to go. Welcome to empathy central.

That aside, having read the differing opinions across the thread I can be sure that whatever cunning plan the TS comes up with it certainly won't please everyone!

 

[Humble Scribe]

That aside, having read the differing opinions across the thread I can be sure that whatever cunning plan the TS comes up with it certainly won't please everyone!

To be honest KG, I don't think he's got one! If he has, he needs to let us all know about it PDQ because I think we're getting very near to breaking point as a trade.

Boarderlyne; my suggestion that all Clk's should come under the Chief was generally aimed at AC level for Career Management purposes. When we reach the dizzy heights of Cpl & above, we need some stability and experience; by retaining the experience at JNCO/SNCO level, this should allow Chf Clk's to Career Manage their SAC's.

 

[tommo9999]

To be honest KG, I don't think he's got one! If he has, he needs to let us all know about it PDQ because I think we're getting very near to breaking point as a trade.

Boarderlyne; my suggestion that all Clk's should come under the Chief was generally aimed at AC level for Career Management purposes. When we reach the dizzy heights of Cpl & above, we need some stability and experience; by retaining the experience at JNCO/SNCO level, this should allow Chf Clk's to Career Manage their SAC's.

On the contrary, I do believe he's got a plan, it's just taking a wee while to be publicised.

For what it's worth, I think all TG17 should be controlled by the Chf Clk. A central focus, single POC would give some direction to the JR's; SNCOs around the Unit could then be used for mentoring/training purposes perhaps. There's no easy, one size fits all solution, but there needs to be a change somewhere I think.

 

[shiny_arse]

On the contrary, I do believe he's got a plan, it's just taking a wee while to be publicised.

For what it's worth, I think all TG17 should be controlled by the Chf Clk. A central focus, single POC would give some direction to the JR's; SNCOs around the Unit could then be used for mentoring/training purposes perhaps. There's no easy, one size fits all solution, but there needs to be a change somewhere I think.

It appears to be a common theme on a lot of the threads that TG17 needs to be controlled centrally on a Stn by the Chf Clk and it's something that I concur with. However, it all harps back to the original post by HS that we need to address the training and retenetion first and foremost.

However back to main topic, I am too stuck in a position where Admin seems to come as a secondary observation by the majority of our commissioned brethren (i.e informing us of accommodation changes a day before departing on exercise!!). My relevatively experienced SAC has PVR'd and it looks likely that the replacement is going to be a brand new shiny. Whereas I'm happy that I'm going to get a replacement in, I am slightly concerned that a first tourist is going to end up working in an environment where there are 3 Jnr ranks and the admin office takes up 2 of those posts.

Surely it would be more beneficial that PSF takes in the new LAC to their umbrella to establish him/her into the admin environment whilst sending out a more experienced clerk who is not going to be in awe of having to deal with so many officers and will be more inclined to say NO when the need arises.

That said, are Chief Clerks going to be willing to take their clerks in the required direction?. I have worked with several over the years whose entire focus is based within either SHQ or civvy street. It is going to take a lot of commitment in order to sucessfully manage a multitude of ranks and experience whilst producing a worthwhile output.

 

[Humble Scribe]

On the contrary, I do believe he's got a plan, it's just taking a wee while to be publicised.

It was a little bit of a tonge in cheek comment Tommo but something needs to happen soon just to give the youngsters a bit of a steer what their future will be; a lot of them seem to be looking at civvy street right now and who can blame them?

 

[Humble Scribe]

Surely it would be more beneficial that PSF takes in the new LAC to their umbrella to establish him/her into the admin environment whilst sending out a more experienced clerk who is not going to be in awe of having to deal with so many officers and will be more inclined to say NO when the need arises.

It's something we discussed only a week or so ago shiny but none of them want to come and work for you!!

 

[shiny_arse]

It's something we discussed only a week or so ago shiny but none of them want to come and work for you!!

Doh!! Mind you looking at some of your biffs guess that may work both ways! ::

Anyhow, I take it my point is a valid one and that it appears pretty pointless sticking a LAC into my establishment at present. Additionally, why restrict it to the PSF empire. There is surely enough other opportunites to farm out one of your lot to the Sqn's to give them some growbag experience whilst throwing one of the Sqn clerks in my direction whilst PSF gains the LAC.?

 

[tommo9999]

I would hope the Chf Clk would look upon your issue carefully and with sympathy SA. We just need (as a trade) to be a little smarter about how we operate. As has been said previously, the days of the "best" clerks working in SHQ/PSF/HR are, or should be, a thing of the past. I hope.

 

[KingGuin]

I would hope the Chf Clk would look upon your issue carefully and with sympathy SA. We just need (as a trade) to be a little smarter about how we operate. As has been said previously, the days of the "best" clerks working in SHQ/PSF/HR are, or should be, a thing of the past. I hope.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the advent of devolvement will, in theory, spread experience across the Unit; we have devolved and 8 months later and teething problems dealt with, it has worked. The PFA footprint will change and no doubt will meet resistance from those with a PSF bunker mentality. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if we are to survive as a trade we must embrace change not resist it.

 

[shiny_arse]

I would hope the Chf Clk would look upon your issue carefully and with sympathy SA. We just need (as a trade) to be a little smarter about how we operate. As has been said previously, the days of the "best" clerks working in SHQ/PSF/HR are, or should be, a thing of the past. I hope.

You would think so in this day and age, however we can but sit and watch and await hopefully a sucessful outcome.

To come slightly off-topic however to address recruitment and retention and something that may be of use to the SNCO and Chf Clerks amongst us, where on earth has the old days of the Admin socials gone to?

Back in the early 90s it used to be a regular occurrence that all the TG17 on station would gravitate towards SHQ for at least a monthly (if not weekly beercall). Is it a reflection on our trade or to the RAF as a whole that we have become so insular?

It's not helped by the fact that the TG17's 5-a-side appears to have been put on the backburner apart from the efforts of a few traditionalists to keep the momentum flowing. Is this something that needs to be adressed by the trade as a whole to get the old camerarderie up and running again. I would aim this particularly at anyone within the Southwick Park empire. As the new home of Admin is there not an opportunity to get some type of annual social get together.

One of the best nights of my admin life was returning for the closure of RAF Hereford. Surely there are those amongst us that would relish the challenge of getting the Trade together for an almighty ****-up?. At present the closest thing that we've had was the JPA training last year!!!

 

[tommo9999]

You would think so in this day and age, however we can but sit and watch and await hopefully a sucessful outcome.

To come slightly off-topic however to address recruitment and retention and something that may be of use to the SNCO and Chf Clerks amongst us, where on earth has the old days of the Admin socials gone to?

Back in the early 90s it used to be a regular occurrence that all the TG17 on station would gravitate towards SHQ for at least a monthly (if not weekly beercall). Is it a reflection on our trade or to the RAF as a whole that we have become so insular?

It's not helped by the fact that the TG17's 5-a-side appears to have been put on the backburner apart from the efforts of a few traditionalists to keep the momentum flowing. Is this something that needs to be adressed by the trade as a whole to get the old camerarderie up and running again. I would aim this particularly at anyone within the Southwick Park empire. As the new home of Admin is there not an opportunity to get some type of annual social get together.

One of the best nights of my admin life was returning for the closure of RAF Hereford. Surely there are those amongst us that would relish the challenge of getting the Trade together for an almighty ****-up?. At present the closest thing that we've had was the JPA training last year!!!

It's another good point, but most TG17 are too busy worrying about the Trade to think about a trade-wide p!ssup. That said, the Stn get togethers were a great way of networking and picking up top tips from others on the Unit. It's a fair while since I was on a large Unit, but it would be sad if they were lost forever.

 

[shiny_arse]

It's another good point, but most TG17 are too busy worrying about the Trade to think about a trade-wide p!ssup. That said, the Stn get togethers were a great way of networking and picking up top tips from others on the Unit. It's a fair while since I was on a large Unit, but it would be sad if they were lost forever.

Fair enough, however is now not actually the ideal time to think about a trade-wide wassa. The SNECS got to enjoy the Chf Clks conference after all!! What's the difference?. A prime time weekend including the Trade Sponsors at a suitable location could clear up so many grey areas and those at the bottom of the food chain could feel suitably included as to what is going on.

 

[KingGuin]

Fair enough, however is now not actually the ideal time to think about a trade-wide wassa. The SNECS got to enjoy the Chf Clks conference after all!! What's the difference?. A prime time weekend including the Trade Sponsors at a suitable location could clear up so many grey areas and those at the bottom of the food chain could feel suitably included as to what is going on.

An admirable idea but I can't really see the TS giving up his weekend to put himself in the firing line. I think what we (regardless of rank) want is clear direction and for that direction to come sooner rather than later. Whenever it does come and whatever the content we are the ones who are going to have to sell it to the troops and make it work. Cynical but true I feel!

 

[tommo9999]

The SNECS got to enjoy the Chf Clks conference after all!! What's the difference?.

Enjoy????? You're having a laugh aren't you??? Poorest conference I have witnessed, most of the delegates left with a real sense of disappointment.

 

[shiny_arse]

Enjoy????? You're having a laugh aren't you??? Poorest conference I have witnessed, most of the delegates left with a real sense of disappointment.

The few I spoke seemed to enjoy the conference, well the night portion of it anyway, and only what they could remember of that in the first place!!

 

[Humble Scribe]

Back in the early 90s it used to be a regular occurrence that all the TG17 on station would gravitate towards SHQ for at least a monthly (if not weekly beercall). Is it a reflection on our trade or to the RAF as a whole that we have become so insular?

You supply the beer, we'll supply the location!! Shiny Scot is always looking for a drinking partner so there's a start, all you have to do now is find some more mates!

 

[Boarderlyne]

Borderlyne I find your opinion interesting however:
1. Digital Posts on Wgs/Sqns - not for much longer. PFA footprint will advocate devolvement under control of Chf Clk/WO PMS.

Agree that development of any clerk should fall under the remit of the Chf Clk, but having a clerk on a Sqn/Wg shouldn't mean that the clerk feels like a dog with two masters with the Sqn WO and the Chf Clk both 'advising' him.

2. Needing Help - do you think those in "digital TG 17 posts" are best placed to determine whom/where Stn wide needs most help?.

No, and have not said that, but the digital TG17 is there to advise Unit members who they need to talk to when a problem is above the digital clerk's pay band.

3. Time in post - We make it work OOA, why not elsewhere. I suggest this is more about taking a clerk out of their comfort zone than anything else.

While I agree that moving a junior SAC onto another post where they can gain valuable trade experience is a great idea, we shouldn't just move people for the sake of it. A lot to be said for clerks knowing the troops that they look after and any 'special needs' that a person might have.

4. Blaggers - With the FMDL at the current level and staffing critical across the board I wonder if we still have blaggers? I can honestly say there are none where I work.

Aren't you lucky KG! DT_Xtremez_30: There are still some out there, they have just learned to hide it more effectively.

5. OOA empathy etc - I am going OOA - again - a number of my clerks are currently OOA with more about to go. Welcome to empathy central.

Done 4 already and looking at no 5 in about a years time! And I have never served on a Rock or Flying Sqn!

That aside, having read the differing opinions across the thread I can be sure that whatever cunning plan the TS comes up with it certainly won't please everyone!

No plan has ever survived contact with reality is all I can say! As long as the plan give TG17 a viable future in blue suits, then I will be more than happy to support it.

 

[tommo9999]

No plan has ever survived contact with reality is all I can say! As long as the plan give TG17 a viable future in blue suits, then I will be more than happy to support it.

Couldn't agree more. It is the uncertainty that is keeping people down at the moment. I'm sure the Trade can survive, but it will be far from easy, and some of the "old & bold" will have to change their ways of thinking about how we do business.

 

[KingGuin]

some of the "old & bold" will have to change their ways of thinking about how we do business.

and I think Tommo, that sums the whole thing up!

 

[True Blue Jack]

In my former life as an almost exclusively PSF clerk, I would have agreed wholeheartedly that the Chf Clk should have control over the professional development of all the Pers Admin on his unit.

Since being posted onto a Sqn however, I have taken the opposite view. The rapport you build up with the guys once you are accepted as "their clerk" is key to getting them to do admin-type stuff (appraisals, OOA preps, Testimonials, etc.) that they would rather not be doing. If we are moved around every few months you take away the opportunity to build that rapport and administration in each Wg/Sqn and the Stn as a whole will take a downturn.

Plus, of course, with the Chf Clk in control you open up the possibility of croneyism. Like it or not, PSF will again be filled with (depending on the personality of the Chf Clk) either the best adminers, or the best-looking adminers. We've all seen it before, and I would rather not go back down that road.