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Future of TG17

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True Blue Jack said:
Plus, of course, with the Chf Clk in control you open up the possibility of croneyism. Like it or not, PSF will again be filled with (depending on the personality of the Chf Clk) either the best adminers, or the best-looking adminers. We've all seen it before, and I would rather not go back down that road.
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Thanks very much, you're not bad yourself!!
 
Over Empowerment

Over Empowerment

I love this word, banded around whenever there is a need to cut/downgrade posts, as mentioned earlier many of our slowly learn the air force LAC/SAC posts have been civilianised and rightly so. The need for having a blue (or CS95 with badges) shirt in there should be to meet a realistic operational committment, provide a steady career progression for those that aspire to it and maintain the skills/experience required when we are deployed.

If this does not quite tie into the perfect trade management triange then the trade should not be mangled to fit it.

Working with the Army, the Navy are generally very similar in attitude, can be a nightmare, there is little if any respect for the RAF Ethos, and due to the empowerment in the RAF we will always be underranked when compared with their AGC(SPS) Clks, underranked also means under rewarded fiscally and career wise.

If you want to get rid of a few Cpl/Sgt posts lets start with the PA/outer office jobs, not just Stn but Cmd level too, the use of service people in these posts is more linked to the requirement to be overworked rather than corporate image.

I value myself and my trade, I feel we always have an opportunity to provide a value added administrative service to the wider service community and if we don't we cannot justify our existence, the triangle will never work (although it may be forced through like most other things) in our trade and whilst empowerment can rewarding and challenging, it should not be a abused but rewarded.

There will always be a need for our trade, in one shape or another, it would be nice to have a trade that is worth staying in.
 
"If you want to get rid of a few Cpl/Sgt posts lets start with the PA/outer office jobs, not just Stn but Cmd level too, the use of service people in these posts is more linked to the requirement to be overworked rather than corporate image."

Can't agree more with that comment. I believe it is often heard that the post has to be a blue suiter just in case the principal wants to work past 5 'o' clock.


 
ForgottenName said:
"If you want to get rid of a few Cpl/Sgt posts lets start with the PA/outer office jobs, not just Stn but Cmd level too, the use of service people in these posts is more linked to the requirement to be overworked rather than corporate image."

Can't agree more with that comment. I believe it is often heard that the post has to be a blue suiter just in case the principal wants to work past 5 'o' clock.
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Absolutely. Everyone knows it was a case of start early finish late, but get a decent appraisal and/or a commendation.
 
Hot off the press today. CinC AIR paid a visit to my place today. I'm not important enough to have been invited to tea and toast but my adj came back saying that he accepted JPA had gone too far and that we need more administrators, not fewer. Unfortunately the word "empowerment" also came into the conversation more than once.
 
I had a 'chat' (indirectly) with AMP yesterday. He is looking to empower JNCO's more with the 'Standards' post on units being at JNCO level and a rolling detechment to the JPAC (JNCO's again) for mutual learning. Suggested the JNCO's for CM idea so who know's if that'll take on.
 
DACOS A1 visited a london unit this week and is quoted as saying that there is a future for the trade. The trade will reduce to 1377 posts by Apr 08, the emphasis on the trade is to become HR focused. He believed that the rest of the Air Farce had come to appreciate the job that TG17 was doing. During his chat he discussed items like JPA and admitted that it was rolled out too quickly.
 
KingGuin said:
At my gaff I have "control" over all TG17 with the exception of the Sqn SNCOs and JNCOs. However the AC posts on those Sqns are on my establishment and I "lend" them to the Sqns on a semi-permanent basis. This serves to ensure communication is maintained between us and the Sqns and more importantly the Sqns themselves. Ideally I would like to have control of the SNCO/JNCO posts too but politics, as ever, prevent me. Now if I could only convince Sqn OCs as a SNCO TG17 I might actually have a clue what is best for the clerks................................
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The intent was always that ALL TG17 personnel would come under OC Admin Wg (BSW) - aka WO PMS/Chf Clk - to enable a strategic view to be taken of operational requirements. In particular, with devolvement of P2/P3 (HR) services out from SHQ, and cross-training/multi-skilling of all staff, it would provide a degree of redundancy (sic...!) to backfill any gaps in the event of operational deployment, e.g. on NRF etc. The essential ingredient in this recipe is still lacking however - changing the establishment from the Sqns/Ops/Eng to Admin. Stn Execs signed up to this at a Management Board meeting, and it was minuted. Nevertheless, I fully understand the point about politics, but where there is a will...
 
busbyboy said:
The intent was always that ALL TG17 personnel would come under OC Admin Wg (BSW) - aka WO PMS/Chf Clk - to enable a strategic view to be taken of operational requirements. In particular, with devolvement of P2/P3 (HR) services out from SHQ, and cross-training/multi-skilling of all staff, it would provide a degree of redundancy (sic...!) to backfill any gaps in the event of operational deployment, e.g. on NRF etc. The essential ingredient in this recipe is still lacking however - changing the establishment from the Sqns/Ops/Eng to Admin. Stn Execs signed up to this at a Management Board meeting, and it was minuted. Nevertheless, I fully understand the point about politics, but where there is a will...
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Good luck telling the Stn Cdr that Sgt Smith has worked in his outer office for long enough and he needs to work on a Front Line Sqn for a while for career development.
 
True Blue Jack said:
Good luck telling the Stn Cdr that Sgt Smith has worked in his outer office for long enough and he needs to work on a Front Line Sqn for a while for career development.
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Agree entirely, however fortunately there is no Sgt Smith in such a post on this Stn - but point well made. Didn't say it was easy, just right.
 
busbyboy said:
The intent was always that ALL TG17 personnel would come under OC Admin Wg (BSW) - aka WO PMS/Chf Clk - to enable a strategic view to be taken of operational requirements. In particular, with devolvement of P2/P3 (HR) services out from SHQ, and cross-training/multi-skilling of all staff, it would provide a degree of redundancy (sic...!) to backfill any gaps in the event of operational deployment, e.g. on NRF etc. The essential ingredient in this recipe is still lacking however - changing the establishment from the Sqns/Ops/Eng to Admin. Stn Execs signed up to this at a Management Board meeting, and it was minuted. Nevertheless, I fully understand the point about politics, but where there is a will...
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It is interesting to note that you used the term WO PMS. I know that there is much discussion going on at the moment regarding whether the WO should be PMS or PSF. My opinion is that it should be PMS, but some disagree.
 
Humble Scribe said:
I had a 'chat' (indirectly) with AMP yesterday. He is looking to empower JNCO's more with the 'Standards' post on units being at JNCO level and a rolling detechment to the JPAC (JNCO's again) for mutual learning. Suggested the JNCO's for CM idea so who know's if that'll take on.
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Have you spoken to the Trade Sponsor regarding the above. I know that he would be interested in what the AMP had to say.
 
busbyboy said:
The intent was always that ALL TG17 personnel would come under OC Admin Wg (BSW) - aka WO PMS/Chf Clk - to enable a strategic view to be taken of operational requirements. In particular, with devolvement of P2/P3 (HR) services out from SHQ, and cross-training/multi-skilling of all staff, it would provide a degree of redundancy (sic...!) to backfill any gaps in the event of operational deployment, e.g. on NRF etc. The essential ingredient in this recipe is still lacking however - changing the establishment from the Sqns/Ops/Eng to Admin. Stn Execs signed up to this at a Management Board meeting, and it was minuted. Nevertheless, I fully understand the point about politics, but where there is a will...
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I think that we need to publicise the support that you are getting at your unit to all units. I know that there are some units that the station executives are hesitant in signing up to what your unit is.
 
True Blue Jack said:
Good luck telling the Stn Cdr that Sgt Smith has worked in his outer office for long enough and he needs to work on a Front Line Sqn for a while for career development.
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However, I think that you may be missing a subtle point. It will probably always remain within the Stn Cdr's remit to move people around at his unit; however, I heard it from the A1 Assurance Team that units will be assessed on their output. I don't think that the A1 Assurance Team will be too bothered if the Stn Cdr has missed an appointment but it is another matter if people are not getting paid properly on his unit because there is no supervision in PSF.
 
ForgottenName said:


However, I think that you may be missing a subtle point. It will probably always remain within the Stn Cdr's remit to move people around at his unit; however, I heard it from the A1 Assurance Team that units will be assessed on their output. I don't think that the A1 Assurance Team will be too bothered if the Stn Cdr has missed an appointment but it is another matter if people are not getting paid properly on his unit because there is no supervision in PSF.
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No, but the Stn Cdr will want someones 'arris for missing the appt won't he?? And it won't be the A1 Assurance Team in the firing line, it'll be WO PMS/PSF/HR/Admin.
 
tommo9999 said:
No, but the Stn Cdr will want someones 'arris for missing the appt won't he?? And it won't be the A1 Assurance Team in the firing line, it'll be WO PMS/PSF/HR/Admin.
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However, if you look around the units I think you will find a mix bag of civilians, cpls and SNCOs carrying out the task. We should not also insult the intelligence of Stn Cdrs to utilise the individual who is employed as the PA to the best advantage.
 
ForgottenName said:
However, if you look around the units I think you will find a mix bag of civilians, cpls and SNCOs carrying out the task. We should not also insult the intelligence of Stn Cdrs to utilise the individual who is employed as the PA to the best advantage.
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I think we are straying off topic. I think it very likely that Stn Cdrs' PAs across the board will be civilianised in the near future anyway, but whether they are or not PA jobs make up only a tiny proportion of the trade as a whole.
 
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