How Many JTs Are Actualy Left?

[DrunkenMonki]

Most of the SAC(T)'s i've seen promoted recently couldn't LEAD themselves anywhere let alone LEAD others up the garden path. I've seen better trained AMM's !!

Crack on..............DT_Xtremez_09:

Most of the NCO/SNCO's i've ever worked with couldn't organise a p!ss up in a brewery! Never stopped them!

 

[monobrow]

Most of the NCO/SNCO's i've ever worked with couldn't organise a p!ss up in a brewery! Never stopped them!

Well knowing where you worked it's no surprise!!!!

Must admit, I was blessed with an awesome SNCO on my first posting who taught me more about fault finding than cosford ever would. And some Cpls (one who later left for TMS) but on the other hand, there were a few cpls who went through the SAC -> J/T -> Cpl route who really really didn't give a flying f*ck, and everyone had to carry them. One example.. Cpl came back from a Q course, was sent out on a job. Turns to a slightly younger monobrow and says...

"Do you know what we're doing??"
"errrr yeah it's an easy test of ......."
"Good cause I haven't got a clue"
"WTF!!! You just finished a 3 month Q course!!!"
"Yeah, doesn't mean I gave a **** though does it"
"Tell you what, you go do the paperwork and the brews, then I'll get someone who's competent to over sign me then shall I??"

Look on his face was worth every bit of abuse he gave me after.

 

[Captain Gatso]

Ok then. After reading all the posts. The people who are really all to blame for this are the boards or commitees that changed the old system in the first place. They probably don't give a flying fcuk anymore, as they have already been promoted onto something new to screw up, or have retired on a pension. The facts speak for themselves. The old system I think was fair enough. If you had the qualifications or not, you started out as a Mech. For those who had the qualifications, 18 months later you went back to Cosford. For those that did'nt you had to prove yourself, and then go back to do your Fitters course. Anyway along came the new system. Mech Mech's were well and truly fcuked over, for a start, as well as the new folks. Then after a period of just eight years. The system was changed yet again. In the short space of time since it's gone from JT to SAC'T. The system has been changed YET AGAIN to AMM's, which really are FLEMS in another guise. The SAC'T scheme has been binned even before it had chance to get going. The evidence lies in the short space of time it's been in exsistence for. We can all argue till we are all blue in the face, who deserves to be made up to Corporal. However we should all be asking the question why the system was changed in the first place. If it's not broken don't fix it.

 

[Tashy_Man]

However we should all be asking the question why the system was changed in the first place. If it's not broken don't fix it.

Well i'm guessing it goes something like :-

New orificer in post HAS to make his mark and be seen to do something worthwhile...creates a comittee who then agree with new orificer and after several years of debating it comes into effect...

Couple of years down the line, new orifcer get into post, looks over all that has gone before and thinks "I can make it better"............

and so on and on and on.....

Eventually new orificer sees how it used to be done many moons ago and thinks "thats brilliant, why did we change" and so the circle is complete !!

Just my thoughts but hey seems about real to me....

Crack on..................DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Liney Hasbeen]

Most of the NCO/SNCO's i've ever worked with couldn't organise a p!ss up in a brewery! Never stopped them!

So in your VAST experience, how many S/JNCO's have you actually worked with ??

Not enough to make a comment like that I would guess ........

Face it they have to promote SAC(T)'s to Cpl because they simply don't have enough .......... don't fool your self into thinking your good !!

 

[monobrow]

Face it they have to promote SAC(T)'s to Cpl because they simply don't have enough .......... don't fool your self into thinking your good !!

Not necessarily!

Like I said before, and how the system should work, is people get promoted on their merits to lead others. If an SAC(T) can show leadership above and beyond that of a disgruntled JT, then why not give him his tapes?? because he's served less time?? Bo11ocks of an excuse.

Just because SAC(T)'s haven't had to endure a first posting, fitters course and then 3 years in current post, doesn't mean that they're all not ready for the responsibility.

 

[DrunkenMonki]

So in your VAST experience, how many S/JNCO's have you actually worked with ??

Not enough to make a comment like that I would guess ........

Face it they have to promote SAC(T)'s to Cpl because they simply don't have enough .......... don't fool your self into thinking your good !!

I joined the Army in 1993. Got Corporal there. I then left. Joined the RAF. Got Corporal here. I was 29 when i got my RAF tapes. I think im old enough and bold enough to stand on my own two feet. I stand by my statement, most of the NCO's i've ever worked with are crap managers. Nice people, good tradesmen, crap leaders. Esp in the RAF.
The promotion system here is all wrong. We should do more like the Army, with cadres to select people, post 6000. That way, an independant body gets to meet and assess you so that ar$eholes who get promoted purely because they never change A/C type or they've done 17 years of useless service don't get picked up.
I have met JT's that got picked up after 2 assesments, and SACT's who will never, ever get promoted. We are all people at the whim of our peers. If you don't like it, make Snec and stop us!

 

[DrunkenMonki]

PS, i'm not being baited any more!DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Dirty Harry]

Just found out I am the last JT on my shift down here the RAF's least popular posting! Having seen at least 5 new CPL's of my trade get posted in after being a "Ring Pieced" SAC for 3 mins grips my shi*, yes everyone needs a bit of help when they get to a new unit/aircraft type but honestly these guys have been rubbish tradesmen and managers,they have no experience and no real idea how to treat someone who has JT or not!

I think all you non assim Ring Pieced SAC's better look over your shoulders because the RAF wants to prove its latest abortion of the Nu Fairforce and promote some AMM's sharpish because they will start going back to Cosford/Wales? soon!

RANT OVER.......

........and count to ten!

You sound very much like the JT I made reference to in my last post on this thread. Perhaps there is a reason why everybody else around you is getting promoted and you’re still a JT? Maybe you need to take a closer look at home before you start knocking other people. If you are good at your job you will get picked up for promotion, fact. That applies out here in Civvy Street too.

I’ve come across a couple of ex JT’s who quickly came down to earth with a bang soon after leaving the mob. Their ‘I’ve done every job and know it all attitude’ doesn’t wash out here in the real world I can assure you.

 

[wgaf]

You sound very much like the JT I made reference to in my last post on this thread. Perhaps there is a reason why everybody else around you is getting promoted and you’re still a JT? Maybe you need to take a closer look at home before you start knocking other people. If you are good at your job you will get picked up for promotion, fact. That applies out here in Civvy Street too.

I’ve come across a couple of ex JT’s who quickly came down to earth with a bang soon after leaving the mob. Their ‘I’ve done every job and know it all attitude’ doesn’t wash out here in the real world I can assure you.

Long time since I've heard a bigger load of sh1te than that. So when you were in the RAF you never saw/knew anyone who should've been picked up but weren't. You obviously weren't around in the late 80s early 90s when there was no promotion and JTs, who were more than worthy of promotion weren't getting picked up or signed on. A fair few of the boys that I worked with back then, who left the RAF as JTs, have gone on to have very successful careers outside.
Here's a suggestion for you until you actually know what you're talking about how about shutting the feck up!

 

[Harry_R_Jumpjet]

You obviously weren't around in the late 80s early 90s when there was no promotion and JTs, who were more than worthy of promotion weren't getting picked up or signed on.

Off Topic Precisely when and why I left the mob. Cpl for 8 yrs was wearing a bit thin. Met all the mates I joined up with on resettlement courses - leaving for just the same reason.

 

[Liney Hasbeen]

We are all people at the whim of our peers. If you don't like it, make Snec and stop us!

Already have and I bl**dy well will .............. Some of the snotty nose little sh*ts I've had and am having the pleasure to work alongside don't deserve to be techies never mind techie supervisors .........

 

[Dirty Harry]

Long time since I've heard a bigger load of sh1te than that. So when you were in the RAF you never saw/knew anyone who should've been picked up but weren't. You obviously weren't around in the late 80s early 90s when there was no promotion and JTs, who were more than worthy of promotion weren't getting picked up or signed on. A fair few of the boys that I worked with back then, who left the RAF as JTs, have gone on to have very successful careers outside.
Here's a suggestion for you until you actually know what you're talking about how about shutting the feck up!

I wasn’t in the RAF back in the late 80’s and early 90’s, bit before my time. However, I am well aware of the fact that promotion was stagnant around that time and as such, good calibre people missed out. I have also worked with a few of the ex JT’s you mentioned that went on to carve successful careers for themselves outside, one of them was my boss for a time.

My reference was to more recent years, when promotion had picked up. Perhaps you are right, the measly 10 years I served in the RAF compared to your 17 affords me no right to talk about something I know nothing about.

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

Long time since I've heard a bigger load of sh1te than that. So when you were in the RAF you never saw/knew anyone who should've been picked up but weren't. You obviously weren't around in the late 80s early 90s when there was no promotion and JTs, who were more than worthy of promotion weren't getting picked up or signed on. A fair few of the boys that I worked with back then, who left the RAF as JTs, have gone on to have very successful careers outside.
Here's a suggestion for you until you actually know what you're talking about how about shutting the feck up!

Every JT prior to March 1986 was on 3 years time promotion in TG1 and Spliters never lost the right,. This didn't help when downsizing of the air force occured in the early Nineties (neither in the way the airforce did it!) . As for promotion, it wasn't just J/Ts, it was every body. Lots of people had major holds on their careers including you, I bet, and certainly myself at 16 years at my last rank (the rampant assesment creep that existed didn't help, I cannot think of anybody that I knew was worth two 9's on the 6442 system). I know a lot of J/Ts from my time on RSS who were not signed on or promoted and their skills were gratefully grabbed by the outside world. They were some of the most skilled riggers I have ever had the privilage to work with! But when has life in the mob ever been fair.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Every JT prior to March 1986 was on 3 years time promotion in TG1

and in TG2 and 3 as well, though our DE/FT Courses were a lot longer (16 Months for L Tech AD DE's when I went though, the L Tech AF and L Tech ST courses were longer). And of course up to early 1988 you had to pass the Trade Promex and get recommend and a minimum of two 6's on the third assessment to get the tapes on 3 years. I know a few people who failed to promoted on time due to the restrictions and it was after they got rid of the promex and brought in TMT and that’s when promotion started to get silly. (Get out of jail for free for two stripes in 1990 due to a load of guys that had not passed promex getting made up on time promotion in 88 and then no promotion for ages).

 

[fofojt]

You sound very much like the JT I made reference to in my last post on this thread. Perhaps there is a reason why everybody else around you is getting promoted and you’re still a JT? Maybe you need to take a closer look at home before you start knocking other people. If you are good at your job you will get picked up for promotion, fact. That applies out here in Civvy Street too.

I’ve come across a couple of ex JT’s who quickly came down to earth with a bang soon after leaving the mob. Their ‘I’ve done every job and know it all attitude’ doesn’t wash out here in the real world I can assure you.

I think I should add something to my first post and that is I have been volunteered into doing 14 months so far off and on as a acting unpaid Cpl. 6 months of this acting rank has been on Ops and not the sort of shiney ops some folks get away with doing where the nearest they ever get to trouble is watching C Feckin NN! The problem I have with this is that I have been doing the job of a Cpl for over a year now yet there are SACT's being promoted on 3 6000's where is the justice in that, I work hard, get the extra responsibility do well with it and still don't get picked up and if you disagree with me working hard why oh why have I been acting Cpl for so long? If I was rubbish at my job why would I be given the acting rank again and again?

Once again rant over! I really should start smoking again maybe that would calm me down!

 

[DrunkenMonki]

I think I should add something to my first post and that is I have been volunteered into doing 14 months so far off and on as a acting unpaid Cpl. 6 months of this acting rank has been on Ops and not the sort of shiney ops some folks get away with doing where the nearest they ever get to trouble is watching C Feckin NN! The problem I have with this is that I have been doing the job of a Cpl for over a year now yet there are SACT's being promoted on 3 6000's where is the justice in that, I work hard, get the extra responsibility do well with it and still don't get picked up and if you disagree with me working hard why oh why have I been acting Cpl for so long? If I was rubbish at my job why would I be given the acting rank again and again?

Once again rant over! I really should start smoking again maybe that would calm me down!

No one said you shouldn't be a Corporal. You just seem to be under the mistaken belief that time served has anything to do with anything. I too was Acting before I got my tapes, although for nowhere near as long as you. I have seen plenty of other blokes get acting rank, do well with it, but then go back to their previous rank. Its upto your 1st RO to ensure you get the write up to go with your abilities. A JT doing well as corporal in my eyes should be nigh on a Spec Rec, problem is they get handed out willy nilly to people who've done 5 or so years on type, degrading them.

Assesment creep is just as responsible for holding back people as any changes in policy. Just don't point fingers at people who you don't know and tar us with the same brushes as the clowns you do. I never said all SAC(T)'s deserve promotion, most don't. They are too young, blah blah. I also never said JT's should be held back. My view is that people are people, irrespective of courses etc. 1st/2nd/3rd RO's are to blame if good people get missed.

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

No one said you shouldn't be a Corporal. You just seem to be under the mistaken belief that time served has anything to do with anything. I too was Acting before I got my tapes, although for nowhere near as long as you. I have seen plenty of other blokes get acting rank, do well with it, but then go back to their previous rank. Its upto your 1st RO to ensure you get the write up to go with your abilities. A JT doing well as corporal in my eyes should be nigh on a Spec Rec, problem is they get handed out willy nilly to people who've done 5 or so years on type, degrading them.

Assesment creep is just as responsible for holding back people as any changes in policy. Just don't point fingers at people who you don't know and tar us with the same brushes as the clowns you do. I never said all SAC(T)'s deserve promotion, most don't. They are too young, blah blah. I also never said JT's should be held back. My view is that people are people, irrespective of courses etc. 1st/2nd/3rd RO's are to blame if good people get missed.

The dreaded assessment creep. Had a conversation with another colleauge SNEC (different trade) about the standard of new SNEC's promoted in post assessing gents who were working under them that year as Cpls. The newer SNEC's were generally over assessing these guys in regards to the other shift, were the more experienced SNEC's were being more objective. No doubts that further up the chain might spot this, but then again?

 

[Harry_R_Jumpjet]

I think I should add something to my first post and that is I have been volunteered into doing 14 months so far off and on as a acting unpaid Cpl. 6 months of this acting rank has been on Ops and not the sort of shiney ops some folks get away with doing where the nearest they ever get to trouble is watching C Feckin NN! The problem I have with this is that I have been doing the job of a Cpl for over a year now yet there are SACT's being promoted on 3 6000's where is the justice in that, I work hard, get the extra responsibility do well with it and still don't get picked up and if you disagree with me working hard why oh why have I been acting Cpl for so long? If I was rubbish at my job why would I be given the acting rank again and again?

I had to explain something to a work colleague the other week. He'd been moaning about promotion prospects, saying he had six years experience doing his job at his current grade. As he had been doing the same thing, he finally accepted that he had one year's experience, six times over. He is now looking to broaden himself by doing a different job at the same grade, so when he comes to make his case for promotion, he has more to offer.

fofojt, I know exchange postings are relatively rare and difficult to set up (although I did go through that myself in 1985 at Wattisham), but give it a thought. If you are as good as you make out (and I've no reason to disbelieve you), then spending some time doing something different could pay dividends.

Failing that, ask for an interview with the AOCinC next time he's around. That should sort you out once and for all.

 

[The Panther]

One less JT

One less JT

So thats me then, I'm leaving the brotherhood. My last few days of terminal leave are approaching and I say farewell to my fellow JTs.

I'm leaving as possibly one of the last Eng Tech As, no sooty stuff for me. All I can say is, I was proud to be a JT and good luck to the ones that remain.DT_Xtremez_30: