Latest Fitness Rumour

[TrickyTree]

TrickyTree - I'm afraid your simplifying far too much; but to follow your logic on a bit further, Pilots are important because they are the guys (and gals) who out bombs on targets (and lets be honest here your simplifing the role of pilots to such a narrow focus at this point you clearly either mean you consider fast jet pilots alone are a more valuable resource and all others are mere mortals like the rest of us or you aren't fully conversent with the RAF definition of airpower, but no matter we can argue this point at a later stage)

Yes I am simpliying, I don't apologise for that, why complicate the issue?

Let me put it another way - The sole point of everybody being in the RAF is to project Air Power. Anybody who disputes this obviously has an empty head.

It's not the case that everybody is as important as everybody else. If it was, why were the GD/RAF Admin/kennel maid/catering clerks/painters/carpenters/marine branch et al (the list is not complete) disbanded? Because they were not important - we found we could do without them. The Regiment - you know, I think, my personal opinion, we desperately need an air-minded ground fighting force to protect our airfields, but at a political level who is going to give a toss what I think? I would not be a bit surprised to find that at that political level there is a lot of fire-fighting going on to preserve their very raison d'etre. (Rocks, I'm not picking on you, just using you as an example). I mean - Rapier went to the Royal Artillery, didn't it? Airfield construction went to the Royal Engineers and so on and so forth - vast numbers of ancillary support posts have been civilianised. This has even happened in engineering at deeper levels of maintenance. But I believe that we will always require aircrew and we will always require people to fix the machines that aircrew fly.

You say that the RAF is a team effort and, yes, it is, and has been since 1918. But to say that everybody in the team is as important as everybody else is a very Marxist philosophy and one which personally I do not subscribe to and looking at what has happened to the Service since I joined in 1985 neither do successive Conservative and Labour governments.

 

[Isis]

It's not the case that everybody is as important as everybody else. If it was, why were the GD/RAF Admin/kennel maid/catering clerks/painters/carpenters/marine branch et al (the list is not complete) disbanded? Because they were not important - we found we could do without them. The Regiment - you know, I think, my personal opinion, we desperately need an air-minded ground fighting force to protect our airfields, but at a political level who is going to give a toss what I think?

Tricky Tree - I don't agree and I think those who fight the fitness test are the ones who have the most too lose - lets face it the for fit ones who pass no problems it's no skin off their nose to have to do 10 mins of PT. Having said that you have the right to your opinion. As we have both had our say and this now runs the risk of turning into a two man (well one woman as it goes) arguement shall we agree to disagree and give the thread back to anyone else who has an opinion on the changes to the fitness test?


Off Topic Admin has been disbanded when did that happen?

 

[muttywhitedog]

So if we are "Warfighter First, Tradesman Second", does that mean we can be crap at our trade but as log as we get a good grouping on the SAT range we are Ok!!!!

 

[I look like Bruce Willis]

You say that the RAF is a team effort and, yes, it is, and has been since 1918. But to say that everybody in the team is as important as everybody else is a very Marxist philosophy and one which personally I do not subscribe to and looking at what has happened to the Service since I joined in 1985 neither do successive Conservative and Labour governments.

Of course SNCOs such as myself are much more important than mere JNCOs and Junior Ranks.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Remembered the log on details have we Collie?

 

[MontyPlumbs]

End of the day the RAF is a team effort - yes the pilot is the one that gets the aircraft to the target (I was under the impression WSO's actually arranged the bomb to meet the target but I'm willing to be told I'm wrong) or intercepts enemy aircraft, etc etc but without the rest of the team in place they can't do any of it and therefore all trades are valuable.

No WSOs in the carbon fibre death provider!!!!!

 

[TrickyTree]

Tricky Tree - I don't agree and I think those who fight the fitness test are the ones who have the most too lose - lets face it the for fit ones who pass no problems it's no skin off their nose to have to do 10 mins of PT. Having said that you have the right to your opinion. As we have both had our say and this now runs the risk of turning into a two man (well one woman as it goes) arguement shall we agree to disagree and give the thread back to anyone else who has an opinion on the changes to the fitness test?


Off Topic Admin has been disbanded when did that happen?

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

RAF/WRAF Admin was declared obsolescent in the mid-90's. Drill and discip duties are done by all trades now but particularly, as you might expect, by the Gnr trade. There are a few WO's still hanging on though, I believe - hence obsolescent as opposed to obsolete.

ILLBW - Get back into your box, you ignominious biped, you, and don't ever presume to quote me again.

 

[Isis]

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

RAF/WRAF Admin was declared obsolescent in the mid-90's. Drill and discip duties are done by all trades now but particularly, as you might expect, by the Gnr trade. There are a few WO's still hanging on though, I believe - hence obsolescent as opposed to obsolete.

ILLBW - Get back into your box, you ignominious biped, you, and don't ever presume to quote me again.

Sorry to hear that Admin was disbanded - especially given I've just been recruited into the admin branch.

Still, perhaps the admins of which we speak are different. I do hope so.

 

[roverboy]

TrickyTree - are you confusing Admin with General Duties?

 

[TrickyTree]

TrickyTree - are you confusing Admin with General Duties?

Nope. Discip-types used to join as General Duties. They never did any trade training, just recruit training. Then before they got promoted to chevron deux they used to go back to Swinderby do do drill and other such stuff before remustering to RAF Admin or WRAF Admin as appropriate. These trades had nothing to do with admin as Isis means it (ie P&A Clks and Pers Admin etc) - they were just drill pigs on training units and everywhere else they used to run the guardroom, act as the SWO's Gestapo (who was himself RAF Admin) and just generally be a pain in the arse. It was a dedicated drill and discip trade, they didn't do a great deal of anything else.

We all danced a jig and thought it was great when they got rid of them but really a dozen or more years on I wonder if we shouldn't have kept them, particularly on training units.

I know far too much about this, which is not healthy for an engineer!

 

[roverboy]

Nope. Discip-types used to join as General Duties. They never did any trade training, just recruit training. Then before they got promoted to chevron deux they used to go back to Swinderby do do drill and other such stuff before remustering to RAF Admin or WRAF Admin as appropriate. These trades had nothing to do with admin as Isis means it (ie P&A Clks and Pers Admin etc) - they were just drill pigs on training units and everywhere else they used to run the guardroom, act as the SWO's Gestapo (who was himself RAF Admin) and just generally be a pain in the arse. It was a dedicated drill and discip trade, they didn't do a great deal of anything else.

We all danced a jig and thought it was great when they got rid of them but really a dozen or more years on I wonder if we shouldn't have kept them, particularly on training units.

I know far too much about this, which is not healthy for an engineer!

I remember the type myself, it was just when you mentioned RAF Admin and drill, that's all.

 

[Isis]

Coming back to fitness testing; I've heard that people are now been threatened with being charged and eventually dismissed for repeatedly failing the fitness test. Now apart from how that would actually work (and it looks a bit shaky to me) can you imagine the abuse the system would take if they do implement this?

Senario: Cpl J Bloggs has had his PVR turned down but desperately wants out; he deliberately fails the test and does so a couple of times, do the RAF boot him out as he wants or keep him in? And if they keep him in what does that do to them when Cpl Jones fails the test routinely and despite attending remedial 4 times a week just can't pass it - they try to boot him out and he and his lawyer stand pointing at Cpl Bloggs asking why the two guys are being treat differently.

I see a whole host of problems with this one.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Coming back to fitness testing; I've heard that people are now been threatened with being charged and eventually dismissed for repeatedly failing the fitness test. Now apart from how that would actually work (and it looks a bit shaky to me) can you imagine the abuse the system would take if they do implement this?

Senario: Cpl J Bloggs has had his PVR turned down but desperately wants out; he deliberately fails the test and does so a couple of times, do the RAF boot him out as he wants or keep him in? And if they keep him in what does that do to them when Cpl Jones fails the test routinely and despite attending remedial 4 times a week just can't pass it - they try to boot him out and he and his lawyer stand pointing at Cpl Bloggs asking why the two guys are being treat differently.

I see a whole host of problems with this one.

As I understand it, all you have to do is to demonstrate a can do attitude towards getting fit. As long as you turn up for remedial and take the advice of the PT staff and put in the effort, they can't do a thing to you, whether you fail or not. I did hear 18 people have been administratively discharged due to failing the FT, but how true this is is anybodys guess.

Don't know what all the fuss is a about, the test is a piece of **** (especially if you're a bird!) I turn up once a year, do it, go home.

MP

 

[Kernow]

As I understand it, all you have to do is to demonstrate a can do attitude towards getting fit. As long as you turn up for remedial and take the advice of the PT staff and put in the effort, they can't do a thing to you, whether you fail or not. I did hear 18 people have been administratively discharged due to failing the FT, but how true this is is anybodys guess.

Don't know what all the fuss is a about, the test is a piece of **** (especially if you're a bird!) I turn up once a year, do it, go home.

MP

As you say I believe from what I have seen is that it is a positive attitude issue rather than a keep failing and you are out. There are some people out there who simply have problems with the shuttle runs, put them on a straight 10 miler and they will breeze through. I know of one lad who cannot pass the bleep test but runs (at a decent pace) 5 miles 3 or 4 times a week, goes to the gym about the same as well and plays most sports. Ask him to run shuttles and he's knackered. I haven't heard of anyone being binned from the Service due to a cr@p attitude to fitness but I'm sure it won't be long.

 

[Downsizer]

I haven't heard of anyone being binned from the Service due to a cr@p attitude to fitness but I'm sure it won't be long.

Getting rid of a stinky here for that very reason, admin discharge is in process.

 

[Kernow]

Getting rid of a stinky here for that very reason, admin discharge is in process.

See I said it wouldn't be long

 

[MontyPlumbs]

The first legal challenge to such a discharge could be an interesting case.

 

[Soon To Leave]

It might just be a quicker way out than PVR!

 

[CRYSTALTIPS]

Coming back to fitness testing; I've heard that people are now been threatened with being charged and eventually dismissed for repeatedly failing the fitness test. Now apart from how that would actually work (and it looks a bit shaky to me) can you imagine the abuse the system would take if they do implement this?

Senario: Cpl J Bloggs has had his PVR turned down but desperately wants out; he deliberately fails the test and does so a couple of times, do the RAF boot him out as he wants or keep him in? And if they keep him in what does that do to them when Cpl Jones fails the test routinely and despite attending remedial 4 times a week just can't pass it - they try to boot him out and he and his lawyer stand pointing at Cpl Bloggs asking why the two guys are being treat differently.

I see a whole host of problems with this one.

If there are a lot of people who are unfit and repeatedly fail their fitness test, I dont think that this is going to be a good idea (2 x fitness tests a year) as this will result it huge amounts of discharges for those who cannot pass it. (Manpower that is essential as it is - with it ever declining at a huge rate!) Why not just keep it as it is? (once a year.) I mean look at the vast majority of the armed forces at present. Their spending a good whack of their time abroad each year out in theatre. Surely you cant expect them to maintain their fitness out in 50C+ heat! Its not on and its not fair.

Plus imagine all those people on remedial fitness, the PTI's are going to be so unidated with having to accomodate for this that there is just simply not enough manpower to do all of this!!!!!!!

 

[Soon To Leave]

Getting rid of a stinky here for that very reason, admin discharge is in process.

I can't believe the person concerned is being discharged just because they have a bad attitude to fitness tests.

It they were going to do that then they might as well kick out all the medically downgraded who can't do the fitness test.