PAYD Bringing ISS To Its Knees

[XVR RA RA RA]

The problem with that is they have been given all outlets on camp pretty much, so if you use a butty wagon or elsewere you're still paying them, probably better profit in it for them anyway, maybe they're deliberately (not vindictively, but not trying that hard to make it highest quality) running the messes ****e to encourage us into more profitable areas?

I can believe that. As the rumour i've heard is they make no profit from core meals. They need you to buy the more expensive options.

I can't believe this thread has gone over 300 posts. THREE HUNDRED ! I hope they are watching.

 

[dkh51250]

Has anyone told them to watch? If it was my business I would be taking heed of all that has been said on this thread.

 

[vim_fuego]

Has anyone told them to watch? If it was my business I would be taking heed of all that has been said on this thread.

I've just emailed them a link to this thread so we'll see if they are bothered...

 

[dozyscopie1]

What a thoroughly depressing thread. Surely one og the great things about being in the mob is three square a day without ever having to be elbow deep in washing up liquid and spending valuable drinking/training/shagging time being taken up by cooking dinner. Coupled with the fact that the evening meal in the mess should be a time to have a bit of laugh, take the p1ss and see who could get stuck into the new tasty-ish waaf from SHQ. It's imperative to morale .

Agreed.Some of the funniest things I have heard is around the dinner table mixing with different trades. Knock on effect with people not eating in the mess,you don't get to know the other lads/trades. At Waddo I loved hanging about with the riggers,fairys, sparkies, dog wa*nkers whatever you called them. It's time away from the trade you do and a wierd understanding of what others do. Plus if you are in a sh*t trade hanging about with other trades is a relief!!!!

 

[muttywhitedog]

Sadly we dont live in the 70s & 80s any more, and the Air Force, like everyone else, must move with the times. We have been in a situation where personnel are discharged after 9, 12, 15 and sometimes 22 years and they leave with no idea of how to fend for themselves in the outside world. Would it really be such a bad thing if they were forced to learn to cook & clean up after themselves?

 

[Vagabond]

Sadly we dont live in the 70s & 80s any more, and the Air Force, like everyone else, must move with the times. We have been in a situation where personnel are discharged after 9, 12, 15 and sometimes 22 years and they leave with no idea of how to fend for themselves in the outside world. Would it really be such a bad thing if they were forced to learn to cook & clean up after themselves?

Hmmm, quite a weak arguement to defend the loss of a morale boosting mess. I bet most kids on here can knock up chilli con carne quick smart and most of us would of ate in the mess for a number of years. Me, I learned how to cook at Poon Hill rapier site in the Falklands and I'm pretty good at it if I do say so myself.

Isn't the whole idea of joining the military a way of escaping the routine of normal life. The mess provides part of that escape. The individual feels part of something bigger. without going all socialist, collective or group eating instills a sense of cameraderie and wellbeing. Frying a feckin burger in a kitchenette does not. I really really miss the feeling of being in the field for a few days, p1ss wet through,stinking, returning to camp after smashing section attacks for week, going to the mess with the lads and eating two main meals, 3 desserts, a kilo of cheese and biscuits and 12 cups of tea.

It's a reward for all the hard work you put in and it tells the young squaddie. "We're going to fcuk you around left right and centre but we will look after your welfare and feed you well". Take that away and your fooked and said young squaddie will leave.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I didnt say I agreed with it, but I realise we live in a different world these days. Most JRs, SRs and officers have voted with their feet when it comes to Messing and Mess Life, and even when the humble squaddie sat with his colleagues for a meal that had been deducted out of his pay pre-PAYD, he will then disappear to his SLAM to play on his XBox/PS3 etc etc, cutting himself off from the outside world until the next morning. This is borne out by the number of JR bars that have all but died, and the Sgts/Offs Messes would be bankrupt if it wasnt for the Public Purse paying for the Bar Staff.

If the troops loved sitting with their mates for dinner then the Messes would still be packed come 5.30pm.

 

[FOMz]

'If the troops loved sitting with their mates for dinner then the Messes would still be packed come 5.30pm.'

Give them good, honest food enough to fill their stomachs and they may well just do that. Give them something akin to pigswill and they will vote with their feet.... Its not rocket science.

 

[techie_tubby]

'If the troops loved sitting with their mates for dinner then the Messes would still be packed come 5.30pm.'Give them good, honest food enough to fill their stomachs and they may well just do that. Give them something akin to pigswill and they will vote with their feet.... Its not rocket science.

It isn't just the food though, the little things are whats missing. I used to love sitting after my dinner with my mates from station and a cuppa. Taking it in turns to get the brews in, trying you rbest to not burn yourself or spill 12 cuppas down yourself. Now at 60p a cup of tea, and a small cup at that it's just not the same.

 

[dozyscopie1]

It isn't just the food though, the little things are whats missing. I used to love sitting after my dinner with my mates from station and a cuppa. Taking it in turns to get the brews in, trying you rbest to not burn yourself or spill 12 cuppas down yourself. Now at 60p a cup of tea, and a small cup at that it's just not the same.

Plus the different nights you used to get at the end of the month. Curry night, surf and turf, italian etc. Then we had Burns Night, celebrated all the Patron Saints days.Unfortunately now all goneDT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Great Uncle Bulgaria]

It isn't just the food though, the little things are whats missing. I used to love sitting after my dinner with my mates from station and a cuppa. Taking it in turns to get the brews in, trying you rbest to not burn yourself or spill 12 cuppas down yourself. Now at 60p a cup of tea, and a small cup at that it's just not the same.

At Laarbruch, we used to sit and have our meal, then move to the "lounge" and have a few smokes and brews, play a few hands of cards, then go back to the block, SSS then off to the Mally/Bowl/Rugby Club etc
The mess at whichever station was a focal point for meeting your mates at the end of the day, slagging off the Snecs and arranging your social life.
Nowadays, the youngsters are constantly in touch during the day by text etc, so they have nothing to talk about in the mess, before buggering off to their rooms for an X-Box frenzy.
I rarely ate in a bad RAF mess, except Halton on courses Solenzara and a few Arab ones, but they were improved when MCSU arrived. Even though I'm no longer in, it still annoys me when you read of things that are going on that further erode any perks serving in the RAF used to provide. I know a couple of the chefs employed by ISS and they are absolutely disgusted by what they have to do now. They want to cook and serve food but are being hanstrung by what they are told to do and what they have to do it with.

 

[br9mp81]

how do the sections that had long hours of standby dutys,SAR,Q,FIRE,ETC get treated now scoff wise,is it payd or take your own stuff in and if so is the kit provided to cook decent stuff,years back i recall the TOE for civvy manned fire sections was very different kitchen wise to service manned ones.

 

[fatboy11]

just got my chippy tea yet again.......oh dearDT_Xtremez_09:

 

[fatalbert]

Is the catering situation the same for SNCOs and Officers? If so, what are your Managers doing to rectify the catering problem portrayed?

 

[stereolab]

Officers Catering

Officers Catering

Is the catering situation the same for SNCOs and Officers? If so, what are your Managers doing to rectify the catering problem portrayed?

Are the Officers queueing up and settling in cash? Do they still have steward service? Are their different prices for the core meals at the different messes? Are their different core meals at the messes?

In this brave new world, I can only see 1 option which will retain certain elements which I enjoyed whilst living in for 24 years 120 days, and that is one centralised mess. I would never have supported PAYD in any shape or form, having seen a variation of it at Ramstein in the 80.s. The average erk will go that extra mile, when asked, if all is well in his life, but this continual eroding of service life will end in tragedy.

 

[sillybilly]

Are the Officers queueing up and settling in cash? Do they still have steward service? Are their different prices for the core meals at the different messes? Are their different core meals at the messes?

In this brave new world, I can only see 1 option which will retain certain elements which I enjoyed whilst living in for 24 years 120 days, and that is one centralised mess. I would never have supported PAYD in any shape or form, having seen a variation of it at Ramstein in the 80.s. The average erk will go that extra mile, when asked, if all is well in his life, but this continual eroding of service life will end in tragedy.

I can't understand how it makes financial sense to have three separate messes on camp, especially as the introduction of PAYD seems to reduce the numbers of people using the service. It is all very well holding on to traditions however eventually you have to admit defeat!

 

[True Blue Jack]

Are the Officers queueing up and settling in cash? We have the option of using our mess bills but some prefer to pay cash, either way there is queueing involved. Do they still have steward service? Yes. Are their different prices for the core meals at the different messes? It depends on the unit. At some, the membership of the Officers' and/or SNCOs' messes have opted for the 'enhanced core menu' which is more expensive but brings greater choice. Are their different core meals at the messes? Except for units where the enhanced core menu is used, no, I don't think so.

In this brave new world, I can only see 1 option which will retain certain elements which I enjoyed whilst living in for 24 years 120 days, and that is one centralised mess. I would never have supported PAYD in any shape or form, having seen a variation of it at Ramstein in the 80.s. The average erk will go that extra mile, when asked, if all is well in his life, but this continual eroding of service life will end in tragedy.

I can't understand how it makes financial sense to have three separate messes on camp, especially as the introduction of PAYD seems to reduce the numbers of people using the service. It is all very well holding on to traditions however eventually you have to admit defeat!

I agree it's wasteful but the contract for PAYD as bid for by ISS specified the 3 mess system. They bid for it believing they could turn a profit and it's up to them to make sure they do. Part of me really wants them to fail but as long as they have the butty wagons, Spar and coffee shops they will make money. I don't think they can make money out of the 3 square a day, which is why I believe ISS are putting minimal effort into the messes. Service ethos, tradition and providing a service mean nothing to them.

 

[Trusty Adjusty]

how do the sections that had long hours of standby dutys,SAR,Q,FIRE,ETC get treated now scoff wise,is it payd or take your own stuff in and if so is the kit provided to cook decent stuff,years back i recall the TOE for civvy manned fire sections was very different kitchen wise to service manned ones.

On SAR we had a large and well equipped kitchen and regularly took it in turns to cook a team curry/chilli/pasta etc. It was always a good laugh and saved a lot of money (and waistline inches) doing kebab/pizza/fish and chip runs to the local village. Given the facility I honestly believe that livers in can and would feed themselves in a healthy (mostly) and responsible manner, unfortunately, a couple of worktops, plug sockets and space for a microwave aren't going to cut it anytime soon in the battle for self sufficiency.

Having invested heavily in super block/SLAM I honestly can't see the MOD investing further in making the necessary upgrades to what are totally inadequate facilities for juniors who should have the option - which was the whole point of PAYD -CHOICE.

Realistically I'd like to see self contained "apartments" for singlies, much like student flat shares, with each occupant having their own room and a shared living area including fitted kitchen and dining/living area. You would still retain communal living, with good facilities the singlies could adequately feed themselves and block parties would become flat parties - problem solved! -

Anyone got a few billion to spare?

 

[Vee2]

This thread has got me thinking about something I posted recently - http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-40745.html

Food Storage in Bedrooms.

For Health and safety and environmental reasons, fresh foodstuffs are not to be stored in bedrooms. However, the storage of reasonable amounts of dried food (snacks etc), drinks and canned foodstuffs is permitted. Fresh foodstuffs should be stored in the fridge provided in the utility/snack preparation rooms and, therefore, large domestic style fridges or fridge/freezers should not be allowed in bedrooms. However, on the principle of their provision in hotels, small drinks fridges/cooling cabinets should be permitted. The decision on what is considered reasonable should rest with Local Service Commanders who should establish clear guidelines on the cooking and storage of food in SLA Local Accommodation Orders.

I know a lot of people who have fridges in their rooms so that they can store their food and try to eat fresh.

 

[FOMz]

I love the phrase Health & Safety issues..... People try and use it as a blanket... You just can't do it ok..

When anyone quotes H&S at me, I always ask to see the Risk Assesment... In nearly 3/4 of the times its happened, they haven't even done one... Justchucked it in to make itsound more official. Risk assesments also need to be done on a case by case basis... Not just blanket one for the whole of SLA.