Redundancies

[SORRY CJ]

I'm in the frame for it, but in two minds really. Jump or be pushed, oh well we will all see soon enough.

If I go they can kiss my swingers if they think they are getting me to do another couple of fattie fit tests and GDT/ODT or what ever they are calling it.
Med centre.....Sick note of you please.

SCJ

 

[Soon To Leave]

From speaking to colleagues there are quite a few in the frame (including myself) who didn't volunteer for redundancy but are quite happy for the RAF to decide on whether they stay in or go with 12 months notice.

Cynical, we may be, but many of us believe the RAF already had a list of whom they wanted to get rid of first and this time round there will be more pushed than jumped as we will end up with less people to do more work. I know of several personnel that have PVR'd rather than hang on in hope of a pay-off.

Good luck to those that get what they want and commiserations to those that don't.

 

[MattBombHead]

I'm down to be on a course for an upcoming OOA starting 5 Sep, if I get the push, then I will not be attending it, end of.

As previously mentioned, loyalty is earned...

 

[Lcfcfox1]

From speaking to colleagues there are quite a few in the frame (including myself) who didn't volunteer for redundancy but are quite happy for the RAF to decide on whether they stay in or go with 12 months notice.

Cynical, we may be, but many of us believe the RAF already had a list of whom they wanted to get rid of first and this time round there will be more pushed than jumped as we will end up with less people to do more work. I know of several personnel that have PVR'd rather than hang on in hope of a pay-off.

Good luck to those that get what they want and commiserations to those that don't.

To say that there was a pre-prepared list of redundeees is so far wide of the mark that you would not believe. The RFP have worked very very hard to ensure that the whole process is the fairest that can be!!!!!DT_Xtremez_06:

 

[Max]

To say that there was a pre-prepared list of redundeees is so far wide of the mark that you would not believe. The RFP have worked very very hard to ensure that the whole process is the fairest that can be!!!!!DT_Xtremez_06:

Fair as in legaly so that they can't be challenged or as in getting rid of the sick and lame?

 

[Downsizer]

I'm down to be on a course for an upcoming OOA starting 5 Sep, if I get the push, then I will not be attending it, end of.

As previously mentioned, loyalty is earned...

Ohhh, do that! I would love to see the rage bomb that is your instructor explode....

 

[Realist78]

To say that there was a pre-prepared list of redundeees is so far wide of the mark that you would not believe. The RFP have worked very very hard to ensure that the whole process is the fairest that can be!!!!!DT_Xtremez_06:

Is that process going to be open to scrutiny? A statement that it has been as fair as can be won't sit well with someone who has been given the boot and is unable to examine the process.

 

[TDJ]

To say that there was a pre-prepared list of redundeees is so far wide of the mark that you would not believe. The RFP have worked very very hard to ensure that the whole process is the fairest that can be!!!!!DT_Xtremez_06:

Will concur with fox1 here, having been on a RSB I can testify to how impartial the boards were. There was no pre prepared list of potential redundees, each candidate was viewed on merit. Those that have been selected, in the main are those that are at the bottom end of their respective trades and didn't have a great deal more to offer the RAF.

I was greatly encouraged by the process and the professional effectiveness of the RFP. I know of boards who did not select applicants, as those applicants were performing exceptionally well and they did not score below the cut off line! Comment on that as you wish but for me it underlines how good the process was.

There will be disappointment on the day as there will be a high number of non applicants being made redundant. But this will be managed, to varying degrees by unit staffs - basically it is a leadership challenge, but many units are expecting redundees to be non effective wef 2 Sep!

 

[justintime129]

So speaks the mouthpiece for the rfp.

What is fair about someone, who is good at his job, bit as decided he's had enough and thinks I'll get out bit I'll get a bit of extra cash to tide me over. He applies for redundancy but the rfp decides he's not going anywhere. This now makes him more hacked off, he becomes demotivated and decides he's going anyway. You've got a result one less number to make up on your next tranche. That's not my idea of fairness.

 

[FOMz]

So by your own words - anyone who is selected for redundancy is efectively trade flotsam... thats nice.

There you have it goaters - if you get redundancy - the boards deem you to be sh1te at your job. I wonder if anyone who sat on the redundancy boards will be getting the letter as well.... now that would be interesting.

 

[Lcfcfox1]

So speaks the mouthpiece for the rfp.

What is fair about someone, who is good at his job, bit as decided he's had enough and thinks I'll get out bit I'll get a bit of extra cash to tide me over. He applies for redundancy but the rfp decides he's not going anywhere. This now makes him more hacked off, he becomes demotivated and decides he's going anyway. You've got a result one less number to make up on your next tranche. That's not my idea of fairness.

Justintime, Are you really that blinkered and stupid. The RFP does not decide anything, all this is done in line with criteria that was set out by trade sponsors, and the whole process is purely administered by the RFP, they do not make any decisions at all, and if you are unsure of anything why dont you PM TDJ, he was on one of the Redundancy boards.

 

[True Blue Jack]

It is fair because the same criteria have been applied to all those in the field. I believe that meets the definition of fairness.

Whether we agree with the criteria which have been used is more or less irrelevant, they are the criteria. Personally, had it been my decision, in an under-subscribed field I would have allowed all applicants to go but I can understand why the Service would try to keep hold of its best people.

 

[FOMz]

But are not the 'best people' the ones more likely to be dis-illusioned and the ones wanting to stay are the ones who know they would struggle in civvy street?

 

[The Nip]

So by your own words - anyone who is selected for redundancy is efectively trade flotsam... thats nice.

There you have it goaters - if you get redundancy - the boards deem you to be sh1te at your job. I wonder if anyone who sat on the redundancy boards will be getting the letter as well.... now that would be interesting.

Why I dont agree or disagree with your point, how do you 'sack' thousands of people if only 40% wish to go?

There has to be a system, there will always be winners and losers. As has been alluded to already, the majority of those going in this tranch are being pushed. Regardless of what people might say on these forums, being brave about pvr'ing alot is just bluster. Making the step in to civi street is hard work for a lot of people.

 

[Stevienics]

Why I dont agree or disagree with your point, how do you 'sack' thousands of people if only 40% wish to go? .

Presumably, no-one is being "sacked". It is simply that redundant posts are being dis-established, and the numbers reduced to match the available positions.

We are going through exactly the same process in the big bad outside world. In my company, 20% of all head office positions are beings dis-established. Some people are moving to other areas, some will be asked to leave (on pretty much the same day as you lot). What they cannot do is make this happen on the basis of perceived job competence, as to do so one must first assume that the company has tolerated incompetence in the first place - and that would be very costly at any subsequent InTrib.

It surprises me then that the MoD can get away with this. Were it me, and I was removed against my will, and there was even the smallest component of comptency suspected in the judgement (and I trust that the RAF has to be open in the terms upon which it makes the decison), I would be down the solicitors in a flash had I not been offered the chance for personal development to address any issues.

 

[justintime129]

Justintime, Are you really that blinkered and stupid. The RFP does not decide anything, all this is done in line with criteria that was set out by trade sponsors, and the whole process is purely administered by the RFP, they do not make any decisions at all, and if you are unsure of anything why dont you PM TDJ, he was on one of the Redundancy boards.

Don't go resorting to insults, I might be many things but I can assure you I'm not stupid.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

At the end of the day there are going to be those who applied for redundancy and don't get it - if they really don't want to be here they'll PVR, unless it was all about the extra 9 months tax free cash (ok some people will really need it to move on).

There will be those who don't want to go but are made redundant after the board has sat and deemed they are no longer required. As has already been said loyalty is a 2 way street. If thats what the board and therefore the RAF think if it was me it'd be 12 months of courses and popping into work to put claims in.
They do of course have the option to question the descision...... For me it comes back to loyalty being a 2 way street. If i was told the RAF didn't think i had a future in uniform i wouldn't be hanging around to prove them wrong.

And there will be those who applied for it and get it... good luck to everyone whatever boat you find yourself in.

The boards sat and maed their recommendations then descisions were made. Personally i applied for it, if i don't get i'll have PVR'd by this time next week.

 

[TDJ]

So by your own words - anyone who is selected for redundancy is efectively trade flotsam... thats nice.

There you have it goaters - if you get redundancy - the boards deem you to be sh1te at your job. I wonder if anyone who sat on the redundancy boards will be getting the letter as well.... now that would be interesting.

In some cases yes, those particular individuals had reached their ceiling, were not performing that well in post and rank and were not contributing to the wider fabric of the RAF. So in that regard it would be entirely reasonable to make them redundant. This is no different to the outside world, where the saying is 'make yourself too valuable to the organisation to avoid being made redundant'.

Yes individuals who were on redundancy boards were also in the fields for redundancy, but I can confirm that they obviously didn't sit on their own boards. No doubt some will get the letter booting them out!

 

[TDJ]

But are not the 'best people' the ones more likely to be dis-illusioned and the ones wanting to stay are the ones who know they would struggle in civvy street?

Not necessarily. There will be plenty of high calibre individuals left behind!

 

[Lcfcfox1]

Don't go resorting to insults, I might be many things but I can assure you I'm not stupid.

I am very sorry about the 'stupid' thing, I can honestly say that no malice was intended, it was just a heat of the moment thing, but please take it from me that there is nothing untoward going on here.DT_Xtremez_14: