Retention.....

[Tubby]

I suspect that if Alistair (Captain) Darling produced a £150,000 Christmas bonus for every man, woman and steward in the RAF then 80% would come onto e-Goat and moan that they needed a bigger leave entitlement to spend it all.

Actually we would use it as a small deposit on a house. Most people admit money was tight way back when and treated differently but from what I can see they where happy, a lot of people serving upto and past thier pensionable point is a clear indication of that, it was said earlier money isn't everything unless all else has gone. What is keeping people in now, not a lot, usually the pension trap or clearing debts before the feck off.

I am sceptical of TBJ, talking of sectret little plans, laying foundations and how it will be so much the better if we get the funding. In his next breath its all about robbing peter etc. Sorry but I think your full of sh!t on that occasion, firstly talking as though your in the know but awaiting funding then talking how your going to solve the issue anyway, big changes get leaked to the press before a white paper or review, not to the goat by some body ''in the know''.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Is it not true that the RAF has been 'falling down' since 1918?

Has anyone in a blue suit at anytime in history ever remarked on how happy they are with every aspect of their Service life?

For generations, Servicemen have complained that they are underfunded, overworked, unloved by their political Lords and masters and generally abused. And every generation has claimed it's getting worse.

I suspect that if Alistair (Captain) Darling produced a £150,000 Christmas bonus for every man, woman and steward in the RAF then 80% would come onto e-Goat and moan that they needed a bigger leave entitlement to spend it all.

You're not in the current Cabinet are you? You must serve in a different RAF to the rest of us.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I am sceptical of TBJ, talking of sectret little plans, laying foundations and how it will be so much the better if we get the funding. In his next breath its all about robbing peter etc. Sorry but I think your full of sh!t on that occasion, firstly talking as though your in the know but awaiting funding then talking how your going to solve the issue anyway, big changes get leaked to the press before a white paper or review, not to the goat by some body ''in the know''.

I apologise for the cryptic nature of my most recent posts on this thread. I am trying to reassure people that the grown-ups really do understand that we have good reason to be unhappy and are doing what they can to address the issues. I know this to be true - please trust me for now.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

Tells us where you work and who for, and it would go some way to getting everyone else to believe you.

Now you'll claim persec no doubt.

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

I apologise for the cryptic nature of my most recent posts on this thread. I am trying to reassure people that the grown-ups really do understand that we have good reason to be unhappy and are doing what they can to address the issues. I know this to be true - please trust me for now.

My mate the AMP said what was happening and what was being planned.. Not set in stone cos nothing is at the mo. Retention will improve when the recession begins to bite. Rercuitment will not be a problem either. The clever guys will pick up experience faster under the pressure they will be under with the more experienced gentlemen leaving. Nobody in the mob is indispensable (and never has been).

 

[True Blue Jack]

Tells us where you work and who for, and it would go some way to getting everyone else to believe you.

Now you'll claim persec no doubt.

I am as prone to error as anybody else but my 3000-odd posts have included an awful lot of advice which has been good, mostly. I hope my reputation will afford me some credence.

 

[vinnyvx2]

I apologise for the cryptic nature of my most recent posts on this thread. I am trying to reassure people that the grown-ups really do understand that we have good reason to be unhappy and are doing what they can to address the issues. I know this to be true - please trust me for now.

I recently left the RAF and my final post as PA for an influential 2*. He was well aware of retention issues and had the power to do something about it. However in general he didn't have the resources to do much about it. We tinkered on the periphery giving retention payments to Gnrs etc. I left because if I'd stayed in I would have been OOA every 2 years, the pay was significantly better outside and I didn't fancy any of the jobs I was likely to do on promotion to FS, which I'd turned down. The first 2 reasons could be fixed, however realistically they would have taken a huge amount of cash to fix and it simply wasn't available and it never will be. I think my top 2 reasons for leaving are the same as many others who have left, or who are leaving. I can't see how retention is going to improve until we have a significant period of operational respite.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

I recently left the RAF and my final post as PA for an influential 2*. He was well aware of retention issues and had the power to do something about it. However in general he didn't have the resources to do much about it. We tinkered on the periphery giving retention payments to Gnrs etc. I left because if I'd stayed in I would have been OOA every 2 years, the pay was significantly better outside and I didn't fancy any of the jobs I was likely to do on promotion to FS, which I'd turned down. The first 2 reasons could be fixed, however realistically they would have taken a huge amount of cash to fix and it simply wasn't available and it never will be. I think my top 2 reasons for leaving are the same as many others who have left, or who are leaving. I can't see how retention is going to improve until we have a significant period of operational respite.

Maybe if they hadn't pared us down to the bone we wouldn't now have this problem.

You can defend airships all you want but when it comes down to it THEY have the power to fight our corner. If there isn't anything the senior officers can do, then the rank and file have only one option - and that is to vote with their feet.

Time spent p1ssing around with fitness testing and rebranding technical trades every 5 seconds could be more usefully employed on sorting out retention I believe.

 

[Teh Wal]

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

And if I remember correctly they did eventually become millionaires (and then lost it all again!)

However, the point is that they won, they did become millionaires.
The RAF is going through a major downer at the moment (as is all 3 services); the future is not like anything that it's encountered in the past and the Service is going to have to change to match that future. That means breaking it, breaking the RAF as it stands at the moment and re-moulding it for the future. The period of breakage is happening now, the old-&-crustys don't like it, the not-so-old-&-crustys don't like it, but it needs to happen. Eventually it will find its level again but it won't be anything like what we remember it to be; the change and resettlement might well take 10 or 15 years to achieve stability but it will get there. Many of the people currently serving won't be there but there will definitely be folk doing the work. It will be, to all intents and purposes, a new Service because it's role will be completely different to what has been needed over the past 100 years.

I pretty much said the above 12 months ago, when our Airship paid us our annual visit (small 3 Group section at ISL), during an informal (-ish) O.R.ranks open forum/chat in the crewroom. I believed it then and I still believe it now (I was in the Mob back then, now I'm a civvy). He didn't say too much, probably because he knew the current crisis was coming, except to say that the percentage of personnel leaving hadn't significantly increased and roughly matched what was expected (dunno what stats he was looking at!) but he did say that change was needed. I was criticised afterward by a few people who thought I was sucking up to His Airshipness; I wasn't, I don't do that kack (otherwise I'd have achieved SNEC-ness a lot quicker than 11 years, ditto for Chiefyness DT_Xtremez_31. I was just saying it how I see it.
I firmly believe that 10 years from now it will be a settled, more content, RAF but it wont be one that many of us old farts recognise. And if you're one of the newbies that has just joined, or joined sometime in the past few years, then look sharp 'cos the future is all down to you - it's back to 1918 all over again!

 

[Realist78]

Maybe if they hadn't paired us down to the bone we wouldn't now have this problem.

You can defend airships all you want but when it comes down to it THEY have the power to fight our corner. If there isn't anything the senior officers can do, then the rank and file have only one option - and that is to vote with their feet.

Time spent p1ssing around with fitness testing and rebranding technical trades every 5 seconds could be more usefully employed on sorting out retention I believe.

Off Topic'Pared' MP, tut tut.

 

[Sospan]

Its getting to a sad state of affairs when a JENGO would rather everybody's fitness test was in date than a serviceable line of Jets. This man's airforce seems to be rotting away. We need to get a grip of our priorities fast before retentions becomes a runaway train.

 

[Realist78]

Its getting to a sad state of affairs when a JENGO would rather everybody's fitness test was in date than a serviceable line of Jets. This man's airforce seems to be rotting away. We need to get a grip of our priorities fast before retentions becomes a runaway train.

It's not a case that the horse is about to bolt, you'd need powerful bino's to spot the fecker now!DT_Xtremez_17:

 

[vim_fuego]

It's nice to put on the rose tinted spectacles, grab a buttfull of lazyboy (thats a type of chair to save all the gay banter) and get a warm fuzzy that in 10 years we'll be a newer, faster and more effective force that could get the stains out of any whites due to some excellent and forthright planning models being considered if not administered as I type but what about now and the next 9 years 355 days?

We are attending to two *wars/police actions/conflicts/actions (*delete as applicable) at the moment plus supporting work elsewhere in the world of some significant importance right now, today, this minute...And one of them we'll likely still be there in ten years time along with very possibly a new, yet to be decided conflict who knows where so although it's nice to look ahead what we really need right now is for someone in the correct rank and position to stand up and do something about the experience we can't afford to lose walking out of the door...I'm sick of hearing about blue sky thinking towards the next decade streamlined RAF when at the moment we haven't got a pot to p!ss in...opsec denies me telling you actual figures but I've scrubbed an obscene amount of missions so far this year...I mean really obscene and as I have to log each one for the 'stats' I notice it's been down to one thing directly attributable to not having enough tradesmen...

So you'll forgive me if I don't get all misty eyed at the thought of someones 10-15 year plan as I need to see somebody of substances 1 year rescue strategy to stop me from walking whilst I still can...

 

[True Blue Jack]

Vim

You are absolutely right. Where you are wrong is thinking that the airships either don't know what you have to deal with day-to-day or don't care. What do you think happens to your stats?

 

[Bitburger]

It's nice to put on the rose tinted spectacles, grab a buttfull of lazyboy (thats a type of chair to save all the gay banter) and get a warm fuzzy that in 10 years we'll be a newer, faster and more effective force that could get the stains out of any whites due to some excellent and forthright planning models being considered if not administered as I type but what about now and the next 9 years 355 days?

We are attending to two *wars/police actions/conflicts/actions (*delete as applicable) at the moment plus supporting work elsewhere in the world of some significant importance right now, today, this minute...And one of them we'll likely still be there in ten years time along with very possibly a new, yet to be decided conflict who knows where so although it's nice to look ahead what we really need right now is for someone in the correct rank and position to stand up and do something about the experience we can't afford to lose walking out of the door...I'm sick of hearing about blue sky thinking towards the next decade streamlined RAF when at the moment we haven't got a pot to p!ss in...opsec denies me telling you actual figures but I've scrubbed an obscene amount of missions so far this year...I mean really obscene and as I have to log each one for the 'stats' I notice it's been down to one thing directly attributable to not having enough tradesmen...

So you'll forgive me if I don't get all misty eyed at the thought of someones 10-15 year plan as I need to see somebody of substances 1 year rescue strategy to stop me from walking whilst I still can...

More than likely called The Royal Flying Corp, as by then the Army will have swallowed the RAF up.:S

 

[vim_fuego]

Vim

You are absolutely right. Where you are wrong is thinking that the airships either don't know what you have to deal with day-to-day or don't care. What do you think happens to your stats?

I can categorically guarantee to you that my personal stats are not seen any higher than section leader...They are used to gain BCR waivers for varios other stats we have to satisfy...

You're at it again with the whole system works when it patently does not...This year is the first time I've really noticed the pinch...No matter how many stats I'm shown telling how retention isn't at critical mass a quick 5 mins doing a straw poll in the crewroom shows up the truth on who staying and who's not...

Tell your boss whoever he may be to break the mould and start visiting places on a no-notice basis...get him to ask the people in charge the state of play for that day right then so nobodies got a chance to tart things up and make it look better than it is...tell him to turn up in as near to casual wear as he owns and no-notice hold a forum in the crewroom with the people who never get sent to the fork lunches...

You're not actually commissioned yet so try and keep a grip on reality whilst you still can...

 

[gemarriott]

Vim

You are absolutely right. Where you are wrong is thinking that the airships either don't know what you have to deal with day-to-day or don't care. What do you think happens to your stats?

Quit with the fcuking brown nosing to the Airships all the fcuking time! For ****s sake are you prepared to say any old bollocks just to get that commission and a few fcuking salutes?

One day you'll grow a par of balls big enough to argue against bad policy and policy makers.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Tell your boss whoever he may be to break the mould and start visiting places on a no-notice basis...get him to ask the people in charge the state of play for that day right then so nobodies got a chance to tart things up and make it look better than it is...tell him to turn up in as near to casual wear as he owns and no-notice hold a forum in the crewroom with the people who never get sent to the fork lunches...

Sadly, my boss is not in that position. I just get to see the correspondence that passes regularly between him and his boss.

I fully understand your frustration - I tried to blag a pax trip over your neck of the woods under the guise of 'pre-OASC research'. Everyone was willing to accommodate me but I gave up trying when the first 3 missions were scrubbed and I was dumped from the fourth because genuine crews were in danger of losing currency.

The best analogy I can use for our current situation is to compare the RAF to a leaking dam. While we are all stopping up various holes, the grown-ups are stood back a pace looking to see where the next leak is likely to spring from and figuring out how they can reinforce that part of the dam before the whole thing collapses. I really am confident the dam will hold.

 

[Bitburger]

Sadly, my boss is not in that position. I just get to see the correspondence that passes regularly between him and his boss.

I fully understand your frustration - I tried to blag a pax trip over your neck of the woods under the guise of 'pre-OASC research'. Everyone was willing to accommodate me but I gave up trying when the first 3 missions were scrubbed and I was dumped from the fourth because genuine crews were in danger of losing currency.

The best analogy I can use for our current situation is to compare the RAF to a leaking dam. While we are all stopping up various holes, the grown-ups are stood back a pace looking to see where the next leak is likely to spring from and figuring out how they can reinforce that part of the dam before the whole thing collapses. I really am confident the dam will hold.

So were the Germans.

 

[gemarriott]

Sadly, my boss is not in that position. I just get to see the correspondence that passes regularly between him and his boss.

I fully understand your frustration - I tried to blag a pax trip over your neck of the woods under the guise of 'pre-OASC research'. Everyone was willing to accommodate me but I gave up trying when the first 3 missions were scrubbed and I was dumped from the fourth because genuine crews were in danger of losing currency.

The best analogy I can use for our current situation is to compare the RAF to a leaking dam. While we are all stopping up various holes, the grown-ups are stood back a pace looking to see where the next leak is likely to spring from and figuring out how they can reinforce that part of the dam before the whole thing collapses. I really am confident the dam will hold.

get your head out of your arse and take a look around, better still get it out of your bosses arse!