TG1 Retention again

[Rigga]

Did the RAF ever recover from the Lossie TG1 exodus?
In my old and distorted view, most WOs disappeared into their offices as soon as appointed - and very many gained their T&L from office work in any case. Certainly, the WO that caused my PVR had only 6 Station postings in to and out of 12 units on three types in his “inexperienced” 30+ years.

 

[Rigga]

Because they can join BA and be paid loads more in a short time doing a paid zero to hero licence course.

As CT well knows, there is a dire shortage of usable Aviation maintenance staff on the outside - driven mainly by Covid related bean counters - but also from a shortage of exiting aircraft Techies from the Armed Services too. Even WE on the outside recognise that being a TG1 in the RAF is not now as ‘popular’ as it once was. Even civvy fitters/apprentices nowadays are far less ‘able’ than older guys. They are just not being told the right stuff in colleges - too much Digital and not enough actual hand skills - PLUS they are also given degrees which pushes them on to other ‘cleaner’ jobs and even out of aviation altogether. Who wants to work in the cold and rain when they can now get more from button-pushing?
In my current company there are 4 retirees (of 8 Cert Staff) due to leave in 2024 and the bosses can only find contractors willing to work here near Londonistan/ULEZ (@£400pw) etc. NO applicants for permie staff. The use of more Connie’s will put us over the50/50 limit for Connie/Permie ratios and restrict the amount of work we can accomodate….

 

[Cat Techie]

As CT well knows, there is a dire shortage of usable Aviation maintenance staff on the outside - driven mainly by Covid related bean counters - but also from a shortage of exiting aircraft Techies from the Armed Services too. Even WE on the outside recognise that being a TG1 in the RAF is not now as ‘popular’ as it once was. Even civvy fitters/apprentices nowadays are far less ‘able’ than older guys. They are just not being told the right stuff in colleges - too much Digital and not enough actual hand skills - PLUS they are also given degrees which pushes them on to other ‘cleaner’ jobs and even out of aviation altogether. Who wants to work in the cold and rain when they can now get more from button-pushing?
In my current company there are 4 retirees (of 8 Cert Staff) due to leave in 2024 and the bosses can only find contractors willing to work here near Londonistan/ULEZ (@£400pw) etc. NO applicants for permie staff. The use of more Connie’s will put us over the50/50 limit for Connie/Permie ratios and restrict the amount of work we can accomodate….

As CT well knows, there is a dire shortage of usable Aviation maintenance staff on the outside - driven mainly by Covid related bean counters - but also from a shortage of exiting aircraft Techies from the Armed Services too. Even WE on the outside recognise that being a TG1 in the RAF is not now as ‘popular’ as it once was. Even civvy fitters/apprentices nowadays are far less ‘able’ than older guys. They are just not being told the right stuff in colleges - too much Digital and not enough actual hand skills - PLUS they are also given degrees which pushes them on to other ‘cleaner’ jobs and even out of aviation altogether. Who wants to work in the cold and rain when they can now get more from button-pushing?
In my current company there are 4 retirees (of 8 Cert Staff) due to leave in 2024 and the bosses can only find contractors willing to work here near Londonistan/ULEZ (@£400pw) etc. NO applicants for permie staff. The use of more Connie’s will put us over the50/50 limit for Connie/Permie ratios and restrict the amount of work we can accomodate….

Tell me about it. Station that should be manned by a station manager and 6 LAEs is 2 LAEs. Got two Connie's coming inboard sometime. But your company is like mine. Will not pay market rate. So people leave. It is also your brexit benefit as well.

 

[baconandeggs]

As CT well knows, there is a dire shortage of usable Aviation maintenance staff on the outside - driven mainly by Covid related bean counters - but also from a shortage of exiting aircraft Techies from the Armed Services too. Even WE on the outside recognise that being a TG1 in the RAF is not now as ‘popular’ as it once was. Even civvy fitters/apprentices nowadays are far less ‘able’ than older guys. They are just not being told the right stuff in colleges - too much Digital and not enough actual hand skills - PLUS they are also given degrees which pushes them on to other ‘cleaner’ jobs and even out of aviation altogether. Who wants to work in the cold and rain when they can now get more from button-pushing?
In my current company there are 4 retirees (of 8 Cert Staff) due to leave in 2024 and the bosses can only find contractors willing to work here near Londonistan/ULEZ (@£400pw) etc. NO applicants for permie staff. The use of more Connie’s will put us over the50/50 limit for Connie/Permie ratios and restrict the amount of work we can accomodate….

I think that sounds about right, I can't remember anyone in the last 10 years leaving going to work on civvy aircraft.

I've seen more go to the middle east. Perhaps going onto civvy aircraft is more popular at certain camps than others?

 

[Cat Techie]

I think that sounds about right, I can't remember anyone in the last 10 years leaving going to work on civvy aircraft.

I've seen more go to the middle east. Perhaps going onto civvy aircraft is more popular at certain camps than others?

Unless you work on Shadow or Voyager, getting a licence is long and difficult.

 

[ady eflog]

Unless you work on Shadow or Voyager, getting a licence is long and difficult.

why would you do licenses when amazon pay better and you arnt getting piss wet through.

 

[baconandeggs]

Unless you work on Shadow or Voyager, getting a licence is long and difficult.

So I understand, I've not looked at it myself but it's 18 months roughly of college courses and log book work?

As others have said, there's careers with similar or not too far off with no longwinded courses and no often required house move.

Not surprising it's not a popular move post raf career.

 

[Cat Techie]

So I understand, I've not looked at it myself but it's 18 months roughly of college courses and log book work?

As others have said, there's careers with similar or not too far off with no longwinded courses and no often required house move.

Not surprising it's not a popular move post raf career.

Some airlines like BA are screaming for ex mob guys now. 1 year minimum on.the tools plus the modules. 17 exams. BA are paying mechs wages to do the courses. The world is different mind. 2 aircraft and me for a week is the engineering support!

 

[Cat Techie]

why would you do licenses when amazon pay better and you arnt getting piss wet through.

Amazon pay 80K? That is what a Jet 2 B1/2 is on.

 

[ady eflog]

Amazon pay 80K? That is what a Jet 2 B1/2 is on.

pretty much, chief left our place, wanted to be a hands on techie at Amazon told him he had to much leadership to not me the team manager, with his bonus he was on 80k

 

[Downsizer]

pretty much, chief left our place, wanted to be a hands on techie at Amazon told him he had to much leadership to not me the team manager, with his bonus he was on 80k

Shift work?

 

[Rigga]

So I understand, I've not looked at it myself but it's 18 months roughly of college courses and log book work?

As others have said, there's careers with similar or not too far off with no longwinded courses and no often required house move.

Not surprising it's not a popular move post raf career.

Like most RAF Courses this is a very much shortened and sponsored version - to get your licences on the outside - unsupported and self funded - can take 5+ years….

If you have the opportunity and availability (for any profession you might like to do) my advice is to go for it while you can.

 

[Cat Techie]

Like most RAF Courses this is a very much shortened and sponsored version - to get your licences on the outside - unsupported and self funded - can take 5+ years….

If you have the opportunity and availability (for any profession you might like to do) my advice is to go for it while you can.

Had all my exams done when I left. 7 years to be a stamper unrestricted. My fault? No. Fault of companies employing me. Yes. And they wonder why they cannot retain or recruit people.

 

[baconandeggs]

Like most RAF Courses this is a very much shortened and sponsored version - to get your licences on the outside - unsupported and self funded - can take 5+ years….

If you have the opportunity and availability (for any profession you might like to do) my advice is to go for it while you can.

I've not heard of this course to get a civvy licence tbh if that's what you meant?

I can pass it on but it's not really something I'd be interested in.

 

[ady eflog]

Shift work?

yeah, and he gets paid shift allowance and Paid for overtime! unbelievable.

 

[Rigga]

I've not heard of this course to get a civvy licence tbh if that's what you meant?

I can pass it on but it's not really something I'd be interested in.

Ive lost touch with the education system now, but some colleges used to do night school course for Part 66 licences. Also, what courses do RAF Guys do for A330 and A400? Join those If you can, as part of your resettlement.

 

[SausageFingers]

Ive lost touch with the education system now, but some colleges used to do night school course for Part 66 licences. Also, what courses do RAF Guys do for A330 and A400? Join those If you can, as part of your resettlement.

A400M get a 'company approval' from Airbus Military UK to certify as a B1/B2 or A. Achievement is reached on completion of a A400M Type course (plus an electrical foundation if you're a Mech), about 12 months worth of OJT evidence (including showing your RAF Trade Training certificates) and then finally an interview with the MAA Form 4 holders.

I suppose it's transferable and a good base to build on, but there is no licence given on A400M.

 

[Cat Techie]

A400M get a 'company approval' from Airbus Military UK to certify as a B1/B2 or A. Achievement is reached on completion of a A400M Type course (plus an electrical foundation if you're a Mech), about 12 months worth of OJT evidence (including showing your RAF Trade Training certificates) and then finally an interview with the MAA Form 4 holders.

I suppose it's transferable and a good base to build on, but there is no licence given on A400M.

Alas without the B1.1 and B2 modules from a PART 147, not transferable at all I wager. A330 is CAA B1 / A cat / B2 and C to certify I believe? Air Tanker cannot get around that especially if they still wet lease out to other operators?

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

Having more FTRS doesn't fix the problem at all. Keeping old guys in higher ranks covering the mundane jobs takes valuable promotion slots. Where's the incentive to stay in if there's now where to go, even a shit job on promotion can be enough to retain skilled workers.

FTRS is a dead end. They retire too!!

FTRS are useful but only when they are put into considered areas, i.e. positions where there has been an historic difficulty filling, the role would benefit from a long term individual being there. Also with FTRS, FC/LC/HC the individuals are becoming younger and choosing it as another career path. You would much rather have an FTRS there than a contractors, once it's lost to a contractor you will never get it back.

 

[SausageFingers]

Alas without the B1.1 and B2 modules from a PART 147, not transferable at all I wager. A330 is CAA B1 / A cat / B2 and C to certify I believe? Air Tanker cannot get around that especially if they still wet lease out to other operators?

AirTanker is CAA approval so is the same as any other operator.

By transferable I mean it's probably a good starting point for getting a decent mech job - many RAF have left in recent years to do this #retention.