The breakdown of Law and Order.

[Cat Techie]

The disadvantage the poor white in the UK was a major plank of the Sewell Report, we should be investing in our left behind so we don’t have to steal professionals from countries who cannot afford to lose them.

As an Enterprise Advisor I’ve spent a lot of time with the School Careers leads, challenging their thinking about academically failing kids being dumped in low grade colleges to keep them off the NEET KPI. It’s a good school that has done some amazing things, however you will always have some kids who just aren’t academic and never will be. It’s only by changing the ‘everyone can go to university’ legacy of New Labour that we bring better lifelong opportunities to this disadvantaged group.

And pushing them into colleges doesn’t work, the school got it, big light bulb moment for them, they drop out, they have no mainstream journey so fall into a life of casual Labour, benefits or crime.

I’m a big fan of the logistics industry giving this group an opportunity for a better life, unfortunately they tend not to touch under 18s, and by the time they reach this age it can be too late.

Biggest problem with schools is the actual lack of funding and time to teach skills that have just been as important to humans since we stood up from being knuckle dragging primates. Use of hand tools and power tools. The basic hand skills to create things. The skills that the less academic can take on and have to a future employer as a lead in to a proper apprenticeship. I made wooden models of Jaguars and Tornados in the woodwork classes at my school in the late seventies. Nothing like that gets taught. Life skills.

 

[busby1971]

Funding and time isn’t the issue, if we did what they do on the continent and accept different pre 16 education streams you could have your various hand skills taught alongside key education basics without the fluff of prepping someone to go through A levels, and on to University.

Unfortunately, the Labour Party is wedded to the comprehensive education system, I don’t see them wanting to move on with the changes the last government started.

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

Kids are pumped full of useless information and are no longer taught some of the basic life skills for sure. We should be teaching them household budgeting and other basic life and hand skills over a lot of the guff in here.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5da7291840f0b6598f806433/Secondary_national_curriculum_corrected_PDF.pdf

Have a read of the National Curriculum and see how much of it have you ever used in your life? 19 pages of English terms and definitions describing language that all kids should learn.



Old news but to make things easier for the little darlings analogue clocks have been replaced in exam halls.

It's to alleviate the stress of reading an "old" clock. Seems kids cannot tell the time anymore.

Although to be honest I do prefer a digital clock.

Schools are removing analogue clocks from exam halls as teenagers 'cannot tell the time'

Schools are removing analogue clocks from examination halls because teenagers are unable to tell the time, a head teachers’ union has said.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Cat Techie]

Funding and time isn’t the issue, if we did what they do on the continent and accept different pre 16 education streams you could have your various hand skills taught alongside key education basics without the fluff of prepping someone to go through A levels, and on to University.

Unfortunately, the Labour Party is wedded to the comprehensive education system, I don’t see them wanting to move on with the changes the last government started.

Hand skills were never taught in schools 50 years ago. First place I was taught how to use tools properly was in a BET workshop at 1 SOTT Halton, 40 years ago. Everyone should be allowed to try and progress up the ladder as far as they can. Sod all wrong with comprehensives. You do 11+ and grammar school? Free academies with independent curriculums isn't something I am a not a fan of. Toby Young being a prime example (nut case). Hand skills should also be taught to everyone. They are skills for life. Up to people if they use them later.

 

[busby1971]

Strange that once in employment we look at the individual and develop plans that suit them best, some become CEOs, some max out at cleaning, and all points inbetween, all adding value in their own ways, no stigma should be attached to anyone in work, no matter what their station.

I’m sure there’s an age where individual traits and strengths become identifiable, not my skill set to say when this is, however, to expect one system to suit all seems to be failing far too many, everyone should be able to leave formal education ready and able for the next positive steps in life.

 

[fourteen2two]

I went to a State Grammar school in the 60s as I passed the 11 plus. We had woodwork and metalwork shops and did both on alternate terms. Learned basic use of tools for both. We also used drilling and milling machines and did soldering tin boxes with big soldering irons heated by gas.
We also had a chemistry laboratory with bunsen burners and all sorts of chemicals we used in experiments under supervision.
Health and Safety would probably not allow it now.
My late father in law used to teach motor engineering in a comprehensive school.

 

[Barch]

Hand skills were never taught in schools 50 years ago. First place I was taught how to use tools properly was in a BET workshop at 1 SOTT Halton, 40 years ago. Everyone should be allowed to try and progress up the ladder as far as they can. Sod all wrong with comprehensives. You do 11+ and grammar school? Free academies with independent curriculums isn't something I am a not a fan of. Toby Young being a prime example (nut case). Hand skills should also be taught to everyone. They are skills for life. Up to people if they use them later.

Why are you a fan of those curriculums?

I went to comprehensive school in 1970. From the first year, we were taught metalwork, woodwork, and technical drawing.

IMHO, at age 13 or 14, kids should be given the choice of following an academic or vocational education followed by government-sponsored degrees for the skillsets that the country lacks.

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

Hand skills were never taught in schools 50 years ago. First place I was taught how to use tools properly was in a BET workshop at 1 SOTT Halton, 40 years ago. Everyone should be allowed to try and progress up the ladder as far as they can. Sod all wrong with comprehensives. You do 11+ and grammar school? Free academies with independent curriculums isn't something I am a not a fan of. Toby Young being a prime example (nut case). Hand skills should also be taught to everyone. They are skills for life. Up to people if they use them later.

I'm not quite that old, but in primary school I was taught to hand sew and how to use a sewing machine. A very useful skill I still use occasionally today.

In secondary school we had a full metalwork shop, a full woodwork shop where we made all manner of bits. Some of which are still in use today in mums kitchen. We were taught to rewire a plug.

We did technical drawing, admittedly a skill that has passed by and has been overtaken by CAD etc. but it taught you precision and skill at hand.

One problem of our education system is that it has been designed "by academics for academics" and doesn't cater for the fringes of the population that do not fit the mould.

Take one section of the English curriculum - "write accurately, fluently, effectively and at length for pleasure and information through:"

Most folks will never write anything "at length for pleasure". Seems a statement to get kids to write multiple length essays about crap they don't care about just to appease the exam folks.

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

And now I've written at length (although not for pleasure)......

 

[Cat Techie]

I'm not quite that old, but in primary school I was taught to hand sew and how to use a sewing machine. A very useful skill I still use occasionally today.

In secondary school we had a full metalwork shop, a full woodwork shop where we made all manner of bits. Some of which are still in use today in mums kitchen. We were taught to rewire a plug.

We did technical drawing, admittedly a skill that has passed by and has been overtaken by CAD etc. but it taught you precision and skill at hand.

One problem of our education system is that it has been designed "by academics for academics" and doesn't cater for the fringes of the population that do not fit the mould.

Take one section of the English curriculum - "write accurately, fluently, effectively and at length for pleasure and information through:"

Most folks will never write anything "at length for pleasure". Seems a statement to get kids to write multiple length essays about crap they don't care about just to appease the exam folks.

We did wood work and metal work, but never really the theory of the tools we used or how to use them properly. Tech drawing is still needed to be known for CAD design. The standard of kids hand writing now is not particularly good, but whom writes on paper now, bar sketching or taking quick notes. Doing my ONC in mechanical engineering saw me buy my first computer for the assignment.

Saying that, the people attacking coppers are the same type of people attacking coppers on a Saturday footy match up to 1989.

 

[Tin basher]

Most of them going down are as thick as pigswill.

Agreed you wouldn't most of them helping out your quiz team but not all those now in the nick fit the broad brush profile.

"An engineering graduate lost his job and his wedding after being jailed for 14 months for throwing a punch at a man during anti-immigration rioting."

Engineering graduate loses job throwing punch at anti-immigration riot

Noman Ahmed (blue top), 24, was among a group of Muslims who went to guard a mosque in Middlesbrough during nationwide violence this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Cat Techie]

IMHO, at age 13 or 14, kids should be given the choice of following an academic or vocational education followed by government-sponsored degrees for the skillsets that the country lacks.

Don't disagree.

 

[Cat Techie]

Agreed you wouldn't most of them helping out your quiz team but not all those now in the nick fit the broad brush profile.

"An engineering graduate lost his job and his wedding after being jailed for 14 months for throwing a punch at a man during anti-immigration rioting."

Engineering graduate loses job throwing punch at anti-immigration riot

Noman Ahmed (blue top), 24, was among a group of Muslims who went to guard a mosque in Middlesbrough during nationwide violence this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Was a fool.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Nah - B would vote reform because they dont want them bloody foreigners taking the jobs for British people. (But wont work themselves)

Do you link any of this to the problems that society faces?

Take a look at the benefits bill. Your case B is a drain on Tax payers where as your case A isn't.

Why is case B where they are today? Reform emerged as a fledgeling entity in November 2018, so which box was case B ticking prior to its emergence?

Case B is a symptom of everything that could be perceived as wrong with the UK, so what solutions can you present?

 

[Cat Techie]

Do you link any of this to the problems that society faces?

Take a look at the benefits bill. Your case B is a drain on Tax payers where as your case A isn't.

Why is case B where they are today? Reform emerged as a fledgeling entity in November 2018, so which box was case B ticking prior to its emergence?

Case B is a symptom of everything that could be perceived as wrong with the UK, so what solutions can you present?

Most of Reform voters are ex Tory and middle to OAP in age. Maybe some Labour as well, but defo many are the former. There is your answer.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Most of Reform voters are ex Tory and middle to OAP in age. Maybe some Labour as well, but defo many are the former. There is your answer.

Interesting. Could you provide reliable statistics please to back up your thoughts?

As politely put to Mutty but you kindly answered on his behalf, what solutions do you propose? What solutions can you present?

 

[Cat Techie]

Interesting. Could you provide reliable statistics please to back up your thoughts?

As politely put to Mutty but you kindly answered on his behalf, what solutions do you propose? What solutions can you present?

Simple. The drop in the Tory vote? From 13 million to 6. 5?

 

[Talk Wrench]

Simple. The drop in the Tory vote? From 13 million to 6. 5?

Can you link a credible source to that?

 

[Deltaitem]

Can you link a credible source to that?

It's only wiki-schmiki, but you'll see similar figures everywhere

2019 election, 13 million tory votes

2024 election, 6 million tory votes

 

[Talk Wrench]

It's only wiki-schmiki, but you'll see similar figures everywhere

2019 election, 13 million tory votes

2024 election, 6 million tory votes

I did say "Credible" source but you knew that