Trade Group 1 Pay Rise

[Talk Wrench]

If I'd have had my time again, I would have gone for the REME. My boss is a WO1(ASM) and a year younger than me! I should add that he is sh!t hot at his job and very knowledgeable and experienced. As experienced as an RAF WO?? Probably not, but does he need to be?

Strange, because most of the ex REME guys I've worked with in the past reckon that they'd have been better off in the RAF.

And I have to admit, apart from a few chods, the ex REME guys are superbly trained. Maybe it's because the Army has kept a proper apprentice scheme?

TW

 

[Bucc Boy]

Strange, because most of the ex REME guys I've worked with in the past reckon that they'd have been better off in the RAF.

And I have to admit, apart from a few chods, the ex REME guys are superbly trained. Maybe it's because the Army has kept a proper apprentice scheme?

TW

Offer me a career where I would potentially make it to a WO pension after 22 years or a career................well a job in the RAF and suddenly hindsight is a b1tch!

I joined as a techie for the money and if, for example, the police or admin had been paying the best wage I would certainly have chosen that RAF trade instead.

 

[glassestashthunderflash]

And in 90 years, and numerous aircraft accidents, how many military aircraft engineers have been charged and/or convicted of this?

None.

A55hole! People have died! Surely to avoid this happening is the true justification why TG1/2 should be paid more! To suggest that it is the threat of the law rather than the loss of life that is the key factor is just disgusting!

Just shows how detached people can be!

And for the guy that said TG1/2 are failed Aircrew! Are you on drugs? That's like saying you're only TG3 as you failed TG1/2!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1997/02/13/nraf13.html

 

[Realist78]

Three Facts:

1. TG1 & 2 are the highest paid trade in the RAF. Always have been and always will be. Although nowadays they have to accept that others are also on this scale.

2. What other trades get paid does not affect what TG1 & 2 get paid. They are (and always have been) on the highest possible payscale.

3. There will not be a new "Uber" Payscale to keep you in.

Therfore if any TG1 & 2 personnel are not happy with their financial package, they are free to leave the employment under the terms of the contract they signed.

What contract?

And in 90 years, and numerous aircraft accidents, how many military aircraft engineers have been charged and/or convicted of this?

None.

Could this be because we strive (and succeed) to get it right?

Just read this from start to finish and had thought of a few points I wanted to add, but they've gone now.

I find most (not all) 'proper' techies to be stuck up their own @rse's, that they are better than anyone else, which must come from wanted to be aircrew but not making it in some cases.

In the last year I have spent the first part of my career working directly with TG1 and tbh have struggled with the working practices and standards, which have been much lower than I have worked to in a TG3 environment. I don't want this to come across as a TG3/(proper part of)4 are better than 1/2, it's not. Most 1/2 people look at us as computer geeks, feck me a 3 week course doing crap admin on out of date systems really doesn't make someone a professional. My argument is that TG1/2 shouldn't be so narrow minded that they are the only real engineers/technicians in our Air Force, other people carry out just as complex (if not more sometimes) tasks to keep these birds in the air.

With reference to the person "deploying for 4 months after 8 months since last deployment" do you really think that you are the only people who deploy on a regular basis?

And that is about it, I ain't even going to mention the pay as from next year half of my trade imo will be getting the HPB without doing the training or work to deserve it.

/sits back and awaits flaming

Intrigued, name them.

 

[BillyBunter]

I find most (not all) 'proper' techies to be stuck up their own @rse's, that they are better than anyone else

We are stuck up our own arse for a reason , we have to be to speak to trade group 0 , thats why there was a rank structure from TG0 to TG57 I think thats as far down the list it goes.In fact the cleaner on the squadron is up there at TG6

Techies have to be arrogant in order for all other people to do what they are supposed to do and thats support us so we can support the Aircrew.

They really have no idea how the system works and think that techies are arses just cause we are , we have a damm important job to do and the last 5 years has seen all other trades whinge moan just cause they dont want to do there job and we have to do it for you , so now you have your pay rises and you have cried , we will now make sure you all have to work for that cash

On that whinge I will rest but its not the people who serve that have issues its the people who lead that make these choices, thats why I cannot stay in the RAF for much longer due to the people who lead.

Merry ****ing Xmas DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Geeza]

We are stuck up our own arse for a reason , we have to be to speak to trade group 0 , thats why there was a rank structure from TG0 to TG57 I think thats as far down the list it goes.In fact the cleaner on the squadron is up there at TG6

Techies have to be arrogant in order for all other people to do what they are supposed to do and thats support us so we can support the Aircrew.

They really have no idea how the system works and think that techies are arses just cause we are , we have a damm important job to do and the last 5 years has seen all other trades whinge moan just cause they dont want to do there job and we have to do it for you , so now you have your pay rises and you have cried , we will now make sure you all have to work for that cash

On that whinge I will rest but its not the people who serve that have issues its the people who lead that make these choices, thats why I cannot stay in the RAF for much longer due to the people who lead.

Merry ****ing Xmas DT_Xtremez_25:

I think you've been overdosing on the Xmas sherry lol! DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[muttywhitedog]

A55hole! People have died! Surely to avoid this happening is the true justification why TG1/2 should be paid more! To suggest that it is the threat of the law rather than the loss of life that is the key factor is just disgusting!

Everyone who does armed guard could potentially kill someone. In fact, more deaths and more convictions have occurred with weapons going off than engineers not doing their job properly.

So lets pay everyone uber wages only when they are on live armed guard, as based on your argument, it is far more risky to life carrying a loaded weapon than a spanner.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Everyone who does armed guard could potentially kill someone. In fact, more deaths and more convictions have occurred with weapons going off than engineers not doing their job properly.

Which is testament to the high standards that engineers adhere to. Maybe it should only be engineers who should be allowed to deal with dangerous weapons. Such as dangerous airborne weapons, known also as aircraft. If the feckwits who are given guns can't use them properly and get convicted of it, then they should never be let near a spanner, which in the wrong hands is far more lethal than than a bloke stood on the main gate with a gun in his possession.

And if you think that being an engineer involves nothing more than holding a spanner, then you should take a closer look at what actually is involved.


TW

 

[Bucc Boy]

Everyone who does armed guard could potentially kill someone. In fact, more deaths and more convictions have occurred with weapons going off than engineers not doing their job properly.

So lets pay everyone uber wages only when they are on live armed guard, as based on your argument, it is far more risky to life carrying a loaded weapon than a spanner.

It has been emphasised by several non-techie people during the development of this thread that the techie trade are basically up their own arse, big headed and arrogant.

To me, it has a feeling of that small weedy skinny little cnut in school who used to be bullied to fcuk. As time passed the weedy (and maybe thick) sh1te grew up, developed muscles and became a man. Albeit a c0ck of a man has a chip on his shoulder the size of Manchester, but a man none the less. When ‘C0ck of a man’, had his chance to shout out to the world that he wasn’t a complete failure and had finally achieved something, everyone looked at him and thought what the fcuk is going on in his little brain?!

Well I am wondering what is going on in the brains of all these people slagging off the techies at present. Inferiority complex? Bullied at school?

The techies may well feel like they are standing in the middle of a chip shop half way through a food fight at present as all the lower TG’s who are being raised to the higher pay band try to rid themselves of those fully loaded chipped shoulders.

Smart asre comments such as

“Not so fcuking special now are you”

“Who is the pr1ck now? Leave school with no qualifications, avoid 3 years of training in the classroom, and I still make it to Sgt, high pay band before you!!”

“You think fixing aeroplanes is more important than the support of fixing aeroplanes? Obviously your wrong, techie kn0bs!”

will go a long way to widening any divide that was already there. I don’t believe there will be any extra money coming the techies way and as I have said before, the ‘time bomb’ of devaluing the techie trades to a salary, equivalently less than (taking into account a year of working on shifts or operating as GE’s) non techie trades is going to be painful yet entertaining. I watch on with interest.

 

[True Blue Jack]

MWD

You can never win the argument you have found yourself in. Techies feel aggrieved that they are paid no more than MTDs (and from Apr 09 you and me) with a great deal of justification. I am pleased that TG17 is to move to the higher pay band because it will mean our take-home pay is what I think we deserve it to be. All in all though, I would rather stay on the lower pay band and see the Armed Forces receive a 10% pay rise across the board. It will not happen either in the current economic climate nor ever under a Labour government.

Much has been rumoured on this thread and others about potential changes to the current pay structure. We should all appreciate that whatever changes are made, one man's meat is another's poison.

In the meantime you and I should appreciate that techies (plus TG9 and others) feel undervalued. Whether you and I agree with that or not is irrelevant; that feeling is spreading like a cancer throughout many of the ground trades and must effect operational efficiency.


Btw, BB, the trade group numbering bears no correlation to the importance or otherwise of the trade(s) in question. Do you really believe that the PTI is more important operationally than the Int An or Supplr?

 

[spanners]

It has been emphasised by several non-techie people during the development of this thread that the techie trade are basically up their own arse, big headed and arrogant.

To me, it has a feeling of that small weedy skinny little cnut in school who used to be bullied to fcuk. As time passed the weedy (and maybe thick) sh1te grew up, developed muscles and became a man. Albeit a c0ck of a man has a chip on his shoulder the size of Manchester, but a man none the less. When ‘C0ck of a man’, had his chance to shout out to the world that he wasn’t a complete failure and had finally achieved something, everyone looked at him and thought what the fcuk is going on in his little brain?!

Well I am wondering what is going on in the brains of all these people slagging off the techies at present. Inferiority complex? Bullied at school?

The techies may well feel like they are standing in the middle of a chip shop half way through a food fight at present as all the lower TG’s who are being raised to the higher pay band try to rid themselves of those fully loaded chipped shoulders.

Smart asre comments such as

“Not so fcuking special now are you”

“Who is the pr1ck now? Leave school with no qualifications, avoid 3 years of training in the classroom, and I still make it to Sgt, high pay band before you!!”

“You think fixing aeroplanes is more important than the support of fixing aeroplanes? Obviously your wrong, techie kn0bs!”

will go a long way to widening any divide that was already there. I don’t believe there will be any extra money coming the techies way and as I have said before, the ‘time bomb’ of devaluing the techie trades to a salary, equivalently less than (taking into account a year of working on shifts or operating as GE’s) non techie trades is going to be painful yet entertaining. I watch on with interest.

What a pile of pish, we all know that everyone gets uber wages nowadays, What? No they don’t? What do you mean it’s different on the outside?

I’m out soon, already been offered an interview as a sub sea engineer, why? Well, ‘cos of my experience and skills gained in the RAF . I am voting with my feet and no, I don’t think it will make any difference, but if they don’t care for me, why should I return it!
I have many skills to offer, all learnt from the mob, if they see fit to de-value (and yes that is what they are doing!) my trade then sod ‘em , I’m off, and believe me the future is not in ac, but maybe in different areas of engineering, now that is a skill that is still recognised elsewhere!
Before anyone starts posting links to admin jobs (or what ever) stating £xxxxx a year, try getting those jobs.
I’ve had a belly full, time to go, just don’t get your hopes up and think it will continue ever after.
A pay rise for the sake of retention, that is one hell weird way of going about it!

 

[glassestashthunderflash]

Everyone who does armed guard could potentially kill someone. In fact, more deaths and more convictions have occurred with weapons going off than engineers not doing their job properly.

So lets pay everyone uber wages only when they are on live armed guard, as based on your argument, it is far more risky to life carrying a loaded weapon than a spanner.

Are you for real? Ok, lets pay everyone 'uber wages', as everyone that does guard is getting it it cancels out so where are we now? That's right, back to the original argument. How many people have died because their pay has been messed up? Or perhaps a leave problem?

Don't come back with some mad-cap scenario, the risk of death through poor engineering practice is real. You want to hope that the very same Techies you're slating on here aren't feeling hacked off when they serviced that Tristar you're sat on about to fly you out to Vegas for an admin jolly! Boy you work hard on those dets don't you!

Stop being a to55er and go and spend some of you hard earned Higher Pay Band wages.

 

[dennis de menzes]

having read this from beginning to end I can't but feel that it's just descended into childish bickering.

the way i see it is the only way to keep people happy is by having some kind of performance related pay incentive, maybe say a 5% rise or bonus annually depending on your assesment, that should keep people more concerned about what their doing rather than what every other trade in the airforce is doing.

after all i'm sure all the techies on here know other techies who actively go out of their way to avoid work fcuk knows I do, so rather than having blanket rewards for trades reward the individuals doing the work.

yes it may not help retention in numbers but your much more likely to keep quality tradesmen if you give them for example a 20% pay rise over 4 years rather than a one off 10%.

you never know it might even stop people crying off ooa's from dodgy backs or poor fitness!
DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[muttywhitedog]

Right you fecking chod,

I am all for the teccies getting paid what they are worth. Unfortunately, until you come up with a better argument than this "plane may fall out of the sky if we dont do our job" bollox, then you aint got a hope in hell. If you dont like what you get paid, then you are free to leave. The PVR Button is under "Self-Service Employee" on JPA.

Now, playing devil's advocate, I note that this is a TG1 Pay rise. How do the aircraft engineers in TG2 feel about an armourer who services a pistol getting paid more than a multiskilled avionic/leccy working on aircraft? Considering my comment about armed guards being dangerous had scorn poured on it, shall we exclude armourers in total, and just make it a "Higher Pay for Mechanicals" thread?

FYI, My "jolly" to Vegas will not involve a tristar but will involve me auditing over 220 expenses records per week. Each one takes at least 20 mins so straight away, thats 40-50hrs of work, before I do bank runs, pay the hotel bills, arrange any compassionates, pay out the weekly rates, try and process any promotions/further service through whatever JPA terminals we can find, even if they are 30 miles away. I'll be looking at a 70-80 hr week, which will be far and away more than my teccy counterparts will put in, and pretty much all my time will be spent making their lives easier. However, I dont ask for thanks from them, because I get paid well for what I do.

I hope that you are not one of those 200 I will be administering, because if you are, with an attitude towards clerks, I will give your expense record extra special attention.

By all means criticise me for playing Devil's advocate, but do not accuse me of not earning my money.

 

[MingMong]

Sorry to p1ss on your bonfire, but once lecky/fairy types become cross trained they move into trade group 1 so the only people who lose out are those who can't be arsed, or maybe for some legit reason haven't done their multi skilling.

You may not be concerned about aircraft falling out the sky, but i'm certain a lot are. Why do you think techies used to paid be more than the rest? Something to do with higher entry requirements, harder and longer trade courses and higher responibility. But obviously you are much more important because if my pay chit crashes millions of lives will be lost!

You really are lost in a world of your own self importance for a 'chod' penpusher. If you fcuk up in all those mundane tasks you stated what risk to others? I'm guessing approx fcuk all squared. I don't care that your trade may have moved into the higher pay band, that's the RAF's fault, not your or mine, but when you try to justify it with such bollocks it makes me sick.

I'll be sure to think of your hardship daily when I'm in Afghanistan in a couple of weeks time working 84 hour weeks in the freezing cold, signing aircraft serviceable and putting my freedom on the line every time I sign my name to a jobcard.

 

[Weebl]

I hope that you are not one of those 200 I will be administering, because if you are, with an attitude towards clerks, I will give your expense record extra special attention.

This sentence right here says more about you than any of the other drivel you have put together.

And just for your info, the party line is no longer 'if you don't like it PVR' because the RAF had just found itself quite short of Techies because they thought that was sound advice.

Any other trade whinges, they get a pay rise, Techies whinge and people tell us to man up or PVR. Lots of us have, lots more of us are waiting till our pension point. None of us would deliberately fcuk somebody over by doing our job differently because they disagreed with us.

 

[Mickwreay]

This sentence right here says more about you than any of the other drivel you have put together.

And just for your info, the party line is no longer 'if you don't like it PVR' because the RAF had just found itself quite short of Techies because they thought that was sound advice.

Any other trade whinges, they get a pay rise, Techies whinge and people tell us to man up or PVR. Lots of us have, lots more of us are waiting till our pension point. None of us would deliberately fcuk somebody over by doing our job differently because they disagreed with us.

Here Here mate,

We have spent our whole careers with a majority of the aircrew looking down on us. We still fix the f'in jets & still lose sleep wondering if that bolt was in!

There is no point trying to convince the many trades what we are worth, our trade will find it's own level! If it's Civvy St then F##K the RAF management.

 

[Sospan]

Right you fecking chod,





FYI, My "jolly" to Vegas will not involve a tristar but will involve me auditing over 220 expenses records per week.

So with audits at 5% of submisions, that totals 4400 claims.... Not bad for a vegas det, who is going half the RAF ?

 

[rest have risen above me]

Right you fecking chod,

I am all for the teccies getting paid what they are worth. Unfortunately, until you come up with a better argument than this "plane may fall out of the sky if we dont do our job" bollox, then you aint got a hope in hell. If you dont like what you get paid, then you are free to leave. The PVR Button is under "Self-Service Employee" on JPA.

Now, playing devil's advocate, I note that this is a TG1 Pay rise. How do the aircraft engineers in TG2 feel about an armourer who services a pistol getting paid more than a multiskilled avionic/leccy working on aircraft? Considering my comment about armed guards being dangerous had scorn poured on it, shall we exclude armourers in total, and just make it a "Higher Pay for Mechanicals" thread?

FYI, My "jolly" to Vegas will not involve a tristar but will involve me auditing over 220 expenses records per week. Each one takes at least 20 mins so straight away, thats 40-50hrs of work, before I do bank runs, pay the hotel bills, arrange any compassionates, pay out the weekly rates, try and process any promotions/further service through whatever JPA terminals we can find, even if they are 30 miles away. I'll be looking at a 70-80 hr week, which will be far and away more than my teccy counterparts will put in, and pretty much all my time will be spent making their lives easier. However, I dont ask for thanks from them, because I get paid well for what I do.

I hope that you are not one of those 200 I will be administering, because if you are, with an attitude towards clerks, I will give your expense record extra special attention.

By all means criticise me for playing Devil's advocate, but do not accuse me of not earning my money.

How long are you away?
I suspect it's not hard to pick up a phone and talk SAC Shineypants to tick the appropriate box on JPA to sort out promotions and further service (that should be squared away before or after a det anyway) And why are you being a cnut and auditing 100% of expense submissions I was under the impression that only 5-20% were audited so that means either you're looking to catch someone out so you can go "Oooh Ooh OCA I caught SAC stacker claiming for a bottle of water and he rounded it up from 99c to a dollar" or the det is for 2200 people approx.
Now stop being a chod yourself and get real, you are a shiney klingon who is only there to support the flying sqn fishing for a bite


Now if you are what/who I suspect you are... shut up and keep up the stirling work by ensuring that SAC stackers mistake doesn't get caught by that cock, up at psf who would go "Ooo Ooo OC A look at this". At least one of your arguments is pish but I'll let you off the other couple and the argument isn't that the scribblies don't earn their money but that TG1 don't get enough money FFS how am I supposed to impress SACW shiney with my Techy XR3i if Sgt Shiney can keep up with me with his XR3i. (Oh those halcyon days of the 80's)

 

[Trembling Scumbag]

Oh really????

Oh really????

Chod eh??? What a d1ck!!!!
Off Topic "dont give adminers any ****, cos well **** up youre rates and audit you" Seems to me that already happens!!!

Edit- What he ^ said too::