Trade Group 1 Pay Rise

[Geeza]

I agree, but people have been voting with their feet, I know loads who have PVR'd, and loads, including myself who just aren't gonna sign on again. Hopefully they've realised this and will do something about it, but I doubt it.. I'm not staying even if they do something, the techie trade is $hagged anyway, they're handing all the 'decent' jobs to civvies which will eventually cause skill fade, and losing loads of experienced guys at the same time by pi$$ing them off with stupid $hit like this.. I'm in my resettlement period now and hopefully by the time i'm due out all this recession cr@p will be over and nobody will have to worry about getting a job..

By that I take it you mean second and third line jobs, which is only to be expected as civvies are apparently cheaper to employ, and cheaper still if you use them via a private company. I think the skill fade has already started to bite hence the AMM recruitment route. This just leaves the responsibilities, already mentioned, propping the techie trades up. The hierarchy aren't stupid, I think they are quite happy to see a thinning out of expensive seniors (negative redundancy) knowing that there will still be plenty clinging on for their pension. Those that join under a one pay band system may see things in a different light and may not be so militant.

 

[Ghandi's Flip-Flop]

. Those that join under a one pay band system may see things in a different light and may not be so militant.

Or may not even join and head for the other 2 services where promotion prospects are significantly better.

 

[Sospan]

Or may not even join and head for the other 2 services where promotion prospects are significantly better.

Unless they deeply investigate the prospects I doubt that will ever be a factor. People will always want to join the RAF as aircraft engineers even if they get paid the same as a supplier this is also regardless of what promotion rumors are like. The guys coming in off the street will be attracted by the job not the politics behind it.

 

[Ghandi's Flip-Flop]

Well I know of several of the kids from my old spacey sqn who have since joined the REME over the RAF as they didn't fancy joining as AMM's. In the current climate I can see plenty of people coming to the same conclusion, the internet makes finding these things out much easier these days.

 

[T55]

Well I know of several of the kids from my old spacey sqn who have since joined the REME over the RAF as they didn't fancy joining as AMM's. In the current climate I can see plenty of people coming to the same conclusion, the internet makes finding these things out much easier these days.

Having worked with the REME I can vouch that anyone joining can probably be a Sgt within 4 to 5 years - with the skill and experience of an SAC(T).

Quite an easy choice really if you want the money.

 

[Ex Tg3]

Just read this from start to finish and had thought of a few points I wanted to add, but they've gone now.

I find most (not all) 'proper' techies to be stuck up their own @rse's, that they are better than anyone else, which must come from wanted to be aircrew but not making it in some cases.

In the last year I have spent the first part of my career working directly with TG1 and tbh have struggled with the working practices and standards, which have been much lower than I have worked to in a TG3 environment. I don't want this to come across as a TG3/(proper part of)4 are better than 1/2, it's not. Most 1/2 people look at us as computer geeks, feck me a 3 week course doing crap admin on out of date systems really doesn't make someone a professional. My argument is that TG1/2 shouldn't be so narrow minded that they are the only real engineers/technicians in our Air Force, other people carry out just as complex (if not more sometimes) tasks to keep these birds in the air.

With reference to the person "deploying for 4 months after 8 months since last deployment" do you really think that you are the only people who deploy on a regular basis?

And that is about it, I ain't even going to mention the pay as from next year half of my trade imo will be getting the HPB without doing the training or work to deserve it.

/sits back and awaits flaming

 

[muttywhitedog]

Three Facts:

1. TG1 & 2 are the highest paid trade in the RAF. Always have been and always will be. Although nowadays they have to accept that others are also on this scale.

2. What other trades get paid does not affect what TG1 & 2 get paid. They are (and always have been) on the highest possible payscale.

3. There will not be a new "Uber" Payscale to keep you in.

Therfore if any TG1 & 2 personnel are not happy with their financial package, they are free to leave the employment under the terms of the contract they signed.

 

[Sospan]

Thanks for your input Ex TG3, for the record I have worked with a few of your trade and they were all great guys. I fail to see any valid points in your rant, do you think that aircraft fitters should be paid on the higher or lower pay band ?

Can you explain what other trade does jobs that rival signing vital checks on a mandatory MP whilst flitting Ejection seats that have rockets attached to them ? And while you are at it tell me who else makes flight safety critical decisions, such as if a pressurized aircraft windscreen is delaminated should it fly or be replaced ?

 

[Talk Wrench]

Therfore if any TG1 & 2 personnel are not happy with their financial package, they are free to leave the employment under the terms of the contract they signed.

The very same contract where the terms and conditions that the employee signed up to of which are being continously eroded and broken by the employer.



TW

 

[mad_collie]

Three Facts:

1. TG1 & 2 are the highest paid trade in the RAF. Always have been and always will be. Although nowadays they have to accept that others are also on this scale.

2. What other trades get paid does not affect what TG1 & 2 get paid. They are (and always have been) on the highest possible payscale.

3. There will not be a new "Uber" Payscale to keep you in.

Therfore if any TG1 & 2 personnel are not happy with their financial package, they are free to leave the employment under the terms of the contract they signed.

TG3 have always been the same payscale as TG1 & 2.

 

[Ex Tg3]

Thanks for your input Ex TG3, for the record I have worked with a few of your trade and they were all great guys. I fail to see any valid points in your rant, do you think that aircraft fitters should be paid on the higher or lower pay band ?

Can you explain what other trade does jobs that rival signing vital checks on a mandatory MP whilst flitting Ejection seats that have rockets attached to them ? And while you are at it tell me who else makes flight safety critical decisions, such as if a pressurized aircraft windscreen is delaminated should it fly or be replaced ?

Sospan, sorry a little bit tired and not concerntrating

To sum up, yes I think that a/c fitters should be on a higher pay band.

I was not trying to say that TG1/2 don't do the work that reflects the pay, I was trying to say that imo others do just as important and difficult work to keep flight safety and mission critical timings met.

 

[Sospan]

Sospan, sorry a little bit tired and not concerntrating

To sum up, yes I think that a/c fitters should be on a higher pay band.

I was not trying to say that TG1/2 don't do the work that reflects the pay, I was trying to say that imo others do just as important and difficult work to keep flight safety and mission critical timings met.

Thanks for your back pedaling, that might have plugged the torrent of abuse I saw coming your way DT_Xtremez_30:

I think the problem most techies are struggling to come to terms with is the fact that when they joined up they did so on the understanding that they would be getting paid more than most trades due to the training requirement and laden responsibility, as I said before I could make a error of judgment tomorrow that could see me in the dock charged with manslaughter or vicarious liability. Its seems as if the RAF have decided that our cause is now less valued than before.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Thanks for your back pedaling, that might have plugged the torrent of abuse I saw coming your way DT_Xtremez_30:

I think the problem most techies are struggling to come to terms with is the fact that when they joined up they did so on the understanding that they would be getting paid more than most trades due to the training requirement and laden responsibility, as I said before I could make a error of judgment tomorrow that could see me in the dock charged with manslaughter or vicarious liability. Its seems as if the RAF have decided that our cause is now less valued than before.

And in 90 years, and numerous aircraft accidents, how many military aircraft engineers have been charged and/or convicted of this?

None.

 

[Albert Park]

And in 90 years, and numerous aircraft accidents, how many military aircraft engineers have been charged and/or convicted of this?

None.

Haven't you got some pencils to sharpen?

 

[muttywhitedog]

Thanks for your back pedaling, that might have plugged the torrent of abuse I saw coming your way DT_Xtremez_30:

I think the problem most techies are struggling to come to terms with is the fact that when they joined up they did so on the understanding that they would be getting paid more than most trades due to the training requirement and laden responsibility, as I said before I could make a error of judgment tomorrow that could see me in the dock charged with manslaughter or vicarious liability. Its seems as if the RAF have decided that our cause is now less valued than before.

They have.

As I said before, muttering wont change it, nor will slagging off other trades. Only a mass walkout by TG1 personnel will have any effect.

And we all know that wont happen, as there are always enough "Proud to serve oh Master" personnel around.

 

[Sospan]

And in 90 years, and numerous aircraft accidents, how many military aircraft engineers have been charged and/or convicted of this?

None.

Well, as it goes there is such an investigation currently being held that I am not going to talk about. But the fact is it could happen tomorrow and in light of certain families legal case against the MOD the danger of it happening might have increased.

 

[Sospan]

They have.

As I said before, muttering wont change it, nor will slagging off other trades. Only a mass walkout by TG1 personnel will have any effect.

And we all know that wont happen, as there are always enough "Proud to serve oh Master" personnel around.

Its not a case of slagging off other trades there are personnel who in the opinion of the masses are on the incorrect pay scale, right or wrong the trade review has decided where they lie and that is that. For example I personally feel that all survival equipment fitters should be on the high pay band.

 

[Joe_90]

Well I know of several of the kids from my old spacey sqn who have since joined the REME over the RAF as they didn't fancy joining as AMM's. In the current climate I can see plenty of people coming to the same conclusion, the internet makes finding these things out much easier these days.

Is that because they truly looked into the different Services they wanted to join, or is it because the RAF have made a p1ss poor effort with recruiting compared to the Army in recent years?

 

[3wheeledtechie]

More likely because they have more access to the real RAF than the average applicant, be it via summer camp, ex or serving RAF acting as instructors, and thus found out the truth. A sad endictment on the state of the RAF if true, that these youngsters who have spent several years wearing RAF uniform (albeit in a way never intended in many cases) and who should be keen as mustard to join the RAF, end up in one of the other services.

1. TG1 & 2 are the highest paid trade in the RAF. Always have been and always will be. Although nowadays they have to accept that others are also on this scale.

Apart from the AMMs of course. This merely echoes that not only do TG1/2 techies think that whatever the pay system is, techies should be on the top band, so do all the other trades.

Where the feck was the trade sponsor when the proposal was made to put AMMs on the lower pay band?

 

[metimmee]

Is that because they truly looked into the different Services they wanted to join, or is it because the RAF have made a p1ss poor effort with recruiting compared to the Army in recent years?

If I'd have had my time again, I would have gone for the REME. My boss is a WO1(ASM) and a year younger than me! I should add that he is sh!t hot at his job and very knowledgeable and experienced. As experienced as an RAF WO?? Probably not, but does he need to be?