AIP mispayment

[ady eflog]

I quoted the trade sponsor on my application along with trade wise June 07 which stated I could do what I did, I had a copy of the email from the TS and a copy of the reciept for my qualification which seem to have gone missing or not put on my 445 file. The chief clerk asked if I still had a copy of the email from the trade sponsor! not unless you can go back in time 5 years, 3 RAF camps and pre DII. awaiting a large bill and a fight.

I will be putting a service complaint in against the T.S. if I have to pay it back as I put this AIP in good faith and within the regs at that time. If I had flucked up this bad at work, a jet would have crashed and I would have done a stretch in colchester, not passed go, not collected 200 quid.

 

[The Bishop]

Have you been pinged on the AIP Audit?

Have you been pinged on the AIP Audit?

Some of us have just found large 'debts' added to the November pay statements on JPA. One i saw today is in excess of £4000. The individual has been told that the debt has a JPA Status of 'Appealing' (Not very)

Interestingly, the AMP that was asked the question regarding AIP just two weeks ago during a visit had said that no decision had been made and it would be 'some months' before anything is decided. He also said the NAVY had started to recover there AIP Debts and that 'left us in an awkward position'.

So heres the thing; If something has not been decided, why add the debts to payslips now? Me thinks something has been decided and knowing this lot, they'll announce it in a DIN as we break for Xmas grant so minimal complaint time.

I am one of the unlucky ones, my AIP does date back 4 years, and after rigorously checking the JSP, found it failed the audit and was rejected on the most ambiguous technicality, the same JSP also states that the HR Staff checking it is responsible for it being correct before awarding it and to check with the Trade Sponsor if in doubt. If i received it, should i not assume that the Adminer has does his/her job and checked? I would certainly be disciplined severely if i fecked up in my trade and ignored my JSP regs.

Anyway, to the question and in anticipation: Would anyone else out there who has been caught up in this, wish to form a group and hire a civvy Lawyer and spread the cost to challenge the MOD? I'm aware a NAVY fella tried it and failed, but he was alone and his case was weak. A large number sticking together could prove formidable. Feel free to PM me and i can guage interest.

NB: if you are expecting it and it didn't appear on this months pay statement - don't relax you are not safe, the debts are following in next months pay.

 

[bart mcgafi]

The word on the street at the secret ISTAR base is that a group has already got together, and chatted with a nice law firm in Lincoln very used to taking on the RAF/MoD. Hopefully one of them will PM you as I think this clawing back of AIP, which as you stated has been approved by HR/Trade Sponsor rules, is diabolical. It is peanuts to what could be saved if we sorted out procurement and the amount of airships we have.

Good luck to you in taking them on. Keep up the fight - you have right on your side!

 

[muttywhitedog]

Put in a Service Complaint against the individual who authorised the AIP. It may not get you the money back, but at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that individual wont be getting any pay rises in the future, as a SC for professional negligence is pretty much a career-stopper in my trade.

 

[ady eflog]

Deal me in, I have a pretty good case and will fight it.

 

[The Bishop]

AIP Farce

AIP Farce

Put in a Service Complaint against the individual who authorised the AIP. It may not get you the money back, but at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that individual wont be getting any pay rises in the future, as a SC for professional negligence is pretty much a career-stopper in my trade.

Service Complaint prepared (JSP 831 Annex F) - For anyone else caught up in this, make sure you get a copy of your original AIP Form that you submitted as It has the name of the person who authorised and carried out the checks on it. Don't let PSF fob you off that they don't have it, they used it to audit you!

NB: I have a nice little group forming already, feel free to jump aboard.

 

[alwaysalecky]

An AIP I put in back in 2007 has been flagged up, so if it comes to them trying to reclaim any money I would definitely be up for joining in with this group as i put it in with TS approval.

 

[Running Man]

Having never submitted an AIP I'm relieved not to be caught up in this farce. With a process in place to approve submissions this should never have happened and the buck should stop with PSF and the Trade Sponsor. Best of luck to those who challenge any attempt to reclaim money.

 

[SORRY CJ]

Just wondering how far are they going back with this...? I used my two aip's (or what ever they were called back then) in the 90's prior to jpa. From what it looks like it seems that all the problems have surfaced post 2005 ish.

I'm out the mob now and I would hate to have these buffoons trying to claw back 15 odd years of my earned money out of my pension because psf had checked and authorized my aip and cocked up when I used my onc and hnc mechanical engineering qualifications.

Mr SCJ

 

[The Bishop]

Just wondering how far are they going back with this...? I used my two aip's (or what ever they were called back then) in the 90's prior to jpa. From what it looks like it seems that all the problems have surfaced post 2005 ish.

I'm out the mob now and I would hate to have these buffoons trying to claw back 15 odd years of my earned money out of my pension because psf had checked and authorized my aip and cocked up when I used my onc and hnc mechanical engineering qualifications.

Mr SCJ

This is a sticky area as nobody at any level have any idea how to deal with personnel who have left the mob. The consensus is that they shouldn't just be able to apply debt to current serving members and not to the ones that have left as this would be immoral and wrong. If the debts are appearing on pay statements now one must assume something is in place for the recovery process for ex-service but it hasn't been announced yet. This will be another conundrum for a civvy lawyer. I think the audit goes back 8 years but I stand to be corrected on that.

 

[alwaysalecky]

This is a sticky area as nobody at any level have any idea how to deal with personnel who have left the mob. The consensus is that they shouldn't just be able to apply debt to current serving members and not to the ones that have left as this would be immoral and wrong. If the debts are appearing on pay statements now one must assume something is in place for the recovery process for ex-service but it hasn't been announced yet. This will be another conundrum for a civvy lawyer. I think the audit goes back 8 years but I stand to be corrected on that.

Think you're right with the eight years, i got told it they were only looking back as far as 2004, got told by my shineys today that the decision on what is going to happen with regards to taking money back will be made today.

 

[SORRY CJ]

This is a sticky area as nobody at any level have any idea how to deal with personnel who have left the mob. The consensus is that they shouldn't just be able to apply debt to current serving members and not to the ones that have left as this would be immoral and wrong. If the debts are appearing on pay statements now one must assume something is in place for the recovery process for ex-service but it hasn't been announced yet. This will be another conundrum for a civvy lawyer. I think the audit goes back 8 years but I stand to be corrected on that.

Cheers Bish.....I was also wondering, is it an audit of only the bods from the last 8 years (2004 ish JPA to present) who took AIP's OR from when it it started and covering all who had it in place prior to 04 and running through the last 8 years?

For example me, audited just from 04 to present not for the last 18 odd years (ouch thats gonna hurt).

It would be unfair that I had AIP's already in place and authorised long before JPA and audit time (like 18 years prior to the 2004 to present audit time) and now they want a claw back.

Time will tell if I will get pinged lets hope not? Anyway I was a rigger so ONC/HNC Mechanical Engineering should bode well with the auditors.

Mr SCJ

 

[woody]

Glad I never bothered to see any AIP's.

And the MOD wonders why people don't want to stay and are voting with their feet! Maybe this is a plan to reduce numbers without having to pay redundancy.

They are taking every chance to take money off the boys while CAS increases his entertainment allowance and lives the life of Riley.

 

[unruly1986]

Loads pinged at 90SU add me to any pm's if there's a list going. I `owe` almost £2k

 

[The Bishop]

Glad I never bothered to see any AIP's.

And the MOD wonders why people don't want to stay and are voting with their feet! Maybe this is a plan to reduce numbers without having to pay redundancy.

That is indeed a thought of many! As usual, the MOD Publicity hand waves and says, 'look at what we do for our serviceman, we encourage them to better themselves and reward them with AIP for their efforts' whilst the hand out of view flips the bird and says 'feck you, we don't really care that morale is probably at its lowest in history, we'll screw em anyway'!

You'll love this as well, I have seen a letter from 'The RT Hon Mark Francois MP' who is he you ask? well he is the Minister of State & Defence Personnel Welfare and Veterans and it says i quote verbatum 'All personnel affected by this overpayment are required to repay this debt'

 

[SORRY CJ]

Well.....I wonder what the press will say (prob not a lot but hey ho, some thing may come out of it) when all this comes out about troops encouraged to better themselves, authorised by the powers that be with a nice pay insentive to do so, only to have to pay it back because of some trade/admin c0ck up.

Mr SCJ

 

[Kryten]

That is indeed a thought of many! As usual, the MOD Publicity hand waves and says, 'look at what we do for our serviceman, we encourage them to better themselves and reward them with AIP for their efforts' whilst the hand out of view flips the bird and says 'feck you, we don't really care that morale is probably at its lowest in history, we'll screw em anyway'!

You'll love this as well, I have seen a letter from 'The RT Hon Mark Francois MP' who is he you ask? well he is the Minister of State & Defence Personnel Welfare and Veterans and it says i quote verbatum 'All personnel affected by this overpayment are required to repay this debt'

And yet The Daily Telegraph disclosed on Wednesday how Stephen Dorrell, the chairman of the health select committee, has secretly arranged for the owners of a nursing home chain to buy his London flat – which he now rents back at taxpayers’ expense.

Mr Dorrell made a £70,000 paper profit in the deal, which was not publicly declared.....double standards or what?

 

[Barch]

What does AIP actually stand for and what is it about?

Goatpedia is down so can't check on there.

 

[gray]

What does AIP actually stand for and what is it about?

Goatpedia is down so can't check on there.

AIP - Advanced Increment of Pay.... get a (qualifying !) qualification and go up a pay level.

An incentive to self improvement and increased worth to the RAF.

G

 

[Weebl]

It would be unfair that I had AIP's already in place and authorised long before JPA and audit time (like 18 years prior to the 2004 to present audit time) and now they want a claw back.

AIPs only came in after Pay 2000, before that there was no such thing as an increment to advance, all people of the same rank and trade were paid the same. There was an additional payment based on how long you has been in, (in the RAF, not in rank) but that could not be advanced or skipped.

I think you may be getting confused between the 2 because there is absolutely no way you had an AIP approved 18 years before 2004, because they did not exist then.