Base Closure Annoucement

Anyone heard any more speculation/information on when it's rumoured to be? It seemed to be the generally held belief that it would be 'after the Scottish elections', but I haven't seen anything that mentions a specific date.

Is it now a straight fight between Lossie and Leuchars, and possibly one other?

 

[SepticCalling]

leuchars has been RAF since 1920 . All defence planning said stay RAF. No one in this area wnated anything else we have around 3,000 jobs generated as a result of the £60 plus input into our local economy. At it moment it looks like in the region of 2,100 are gone. NE Fife has about 72,000 of a total population. Our jobs losses in recent years have been the Guardbridge paper mill-almost 400 . Cupar dairy 70 .Numerous hotels going on minium staff. RAF Leuchars is the last big generator of employment in this area apart from the University of St.Andrews. As you will guess it is useful to have a degree if you want to go after the type of work offered by the Varsity. There is a greaty deal of worry about the future not to mention great anger. Dr. Fox has not yet showed up to speak. Local paper says he might actually have guts to turn up

So, it has nothing to do with military asset, or strategic importance, just a local job creation scheme? Best think again. Many other air bases around the UK have closed and none have generated this type of angst. It is closing, the decision is final, chapter closed.
Lossie was and is the right choice for future strategy, it ticks all of the boxes!

 

[Ghandi's Flip-Flop]

leuchars has been RAF since 1920 . All defence planning said stay RAF. No one in this area wnated anything else we have around 3,000 jobs generated as a result of the £60 plus input into our local economy. At it moment it looks like in the region of 2,100 are gone. NE Fife has about 72,000 of a total population. Our jobs losses in recent years have been the Guardbridge paper mill-almost 400 . Cupar dairy 70 .Numerous hotels going on minium staff. RAF Leuchars is the last big generator of employment in this area apart from the University of St.Andrews. As you will guess it is useful to have a degree if you want to go after the type of work offered by the Varsity. There is a greaty deal of worry about the future not to mention great anger. Dr. Fox has not yet showed up to speak. Local paper says he might actually have guts to turn up

Leuchars is a ten minute drive from Dundee, a 25 minute drive from Perth. I'd hardly suggest that there are no easily commuteable employment options in that area.

 

[FOGHORN LEGHORN]

So, it has nothing to do with military asset, or strategic importance, just a local job creation scheme? Best think again. Many other air bases around the UK have closed and none have generated this type of angst. It is closing, the decision is final, chapter closed.
Lossie was and is the right choice for future strategy, it ticks all of the boxes!

But I think this is the important issue for some, and comes down to personal opinion. Whilst the case is closed and the decision has been made, it doesn't necessarily mean it was the right one. I know you might struggle to comprehend the legitimacies of other points of view but I thought leuchars was a great camp when I was there and a fantastic location, especially compared to times I have spent at Lossiemouth and Kinloss. The decision has been made but some won't agree with the reasons. Personal opinion. Deal with it.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

Don't hold your breath expecting a visit from Fox.....
He was at Lossie the day after the announcement of Kinloss closing and we never saw him here. Still haven't.... don't think he'd be welcome anyway.
He did visit Lossie again last week though, probably expecting to be given the freedom of moray!
He's a politician, he'll go where the good new is but hasn't got the nads to go to where the bad news was delivered. Obviously if he was an opposition MP the situation is reversed...

Also he's on his hard earned 12 weeks holiday now.... Wouldn't want to visit a bunch of angry blue suiters and ruin his relaxation time would we!

 

[Teh Wal]

leuchars has been RAF since 1920 . All defence planning said stay RAF. No one in this area wnated anything else we have around 3,000 jobs generated as a result of the £60 plus input into our local economy. At it moment it looks like in the region of 2,100 are gone. NE Fife has about 72,000 of a total population. Our jobs losses in recent years have been the Guardbridge paper mill-almost 400 . Cupar dairy 70 .Numerous hotels going on minium staff. RAF Leuchars is the last big generator of employment in this area apart from the University of St.Andrews. As you will guess it is useful to have a degree if you want to go after the type of work offered by the Varsity. There is a greaty deal of worry about the future not to mention great anger. Dr. Fox has not yet showed up to speak. Local paper says he might actually have guts to turn up

And you were willing to wish that on the Lossie/Kinloss region? 2 bases only 12 miles apart which both provide economic support to large towns. Each town is already suffering in the current economic downturn, the nearest large city/towns to Elgin/Forres are Aberdeen (65 miles east of Elgin, 77 E of Forres) and Inverness (40 west of Elgin, 28 miles W of Forres): GhandisFF pointed out that the NE Fife region could probably support the loss of work associated with Leuchars closure better than Moray could following the loss of both ISL and ISK and although it's going to hurt some people he is probably correct.
Gotta say that this reminds me of the Great Debate over Chivenor/Valley 20 years ago... and following the recent closure of the main employer on the island, Rio Tinto, I'd probably have to say that the correct decision was made back then.

 

[SepticCalling]

But I think this is the important issue for some, and comes down to personal opinion. Whilst the case is closed and the decision has been made, it doesn't necessarily mean it was the right one. I know you might struggle to comprehend the legitimacies of other points of view but I thought leuchars was a great camp when I was there and a fantastic location, especially compared to times I have spent at Lossiemouth and Kinloss. The decision has been made but some won't agree with the reasons. Personal opinion. Deal with it.

Of course it is an important issue but I would say you have to stand back from the personal opinion and ask, well two out of the three had to close, which one is fitting and right? Well the one that is best for the Nation won.

I had some fantastic times at Lyneham, St Mawgan and Cottesmore....and I dont think anyone who was in TG3 has not shed a tear for Locking, yes it was a crying shame that they closed, but as you say, the locals dealt with it and moved on to the next chapter!

 

[Combet Sheep]

I dont see what the problem is. Leuchars is getting several thousand Army personnel posted in. They will all have to spend their pennies somewhere. Its not like when Binbrook closed and no military units moved in. That area took a big hit.

The locals at Leuchars/Dundee are getting easy by comparison.

And if you want to have any comparison to the Leuchars situation, I suggest you read the history books and see what happened to Chivenor when the RAF left - marines moved in, local economy carried on as before.

 

[roslin]

Army to Leuchars

Army to Leuchars

Number said to be around 1,300 . 2 Units RSDG ? + 1 but on news last night doubt if ever due to next round of army cuts . Busy doing economic and social profile . Income will fall heavily due to squaddie income a lot less than a long service technician eg

 

[Craig855s]

I have to say this made me laugh. The idea of Lossie to EDI in sub 5 minutes from wheels off the ground is a bit extreme, is that calculation based on 1522MPH "as the crow flies" from the second it leaves the ground to the second it passes over the centre of the capital?

I imagine the time taken to do it as fast as possible without breaking the soudn barrier near poplulated areas is going to be a lot longer than that, but still, plenty of time considering the potential "baddies" will be travelling a lot slower than that and the shout will come with plenty of warning

 

[Realist78]

leuchars has been RAF since 1920 . All defence planning said stay RAF. No one in this area wnated anything else we have around 3,000 jobs generated as a result of the £60 plus input into our local economy. At it moment it looks like in the region of 2,100 are gone. NE Fife has about 72,000 of a total population. Our jobs losses in recent years have been the Guardbridge paper mill-almost 400 . Cupar dairy 70 .Numerous hotels going on minium staff. RAF Leuchars is the last big generator of employment in this area apart from the University of St.Andrews. As you will guess it is useful to have a degree if you want to go after the type of work offered by the Varsity. There is a greaty deal of worry about the future not to mention great anger. Dr. Fox has not yet showed up to speak. Local paper says he might actually have guts to turn up

I thought that the minimum wage was low but...DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[Combet Sheep]

Busy doing economic and social profile .

Easy - Army will spend all their time drinking in town and fighting with the locals/students.

On the plus side, St Andrews will have to employ more cleaners and builders to clear up the carnage after a weekend. Ergo - local unemployment actually goes down.

Win Win I say

 

[True Blue Jack]

Number said to be around 1,300 . 2 Units RSDG ? + 1 but on news last night doubt if ever due to next round of army cuts . Busy doing economic and social profile . Income will fall heavily due to squaddie income a lot less than a long service technician eg

It never rains but it pours!

One of the reasons Leuchars was a more obvious choice to close than Lossie was the opportunity for economic regeneration in St. Andrew's when compared to Elgin.

But actually, with the Army moving into Central Scotland the need for re-generation will be minimal. Corporals are on the same pay scale whatever the colour of their uniform so I don't understand the rationale which suggests that income will fall. Yes, the Army is looking at a drawdown in numbers from 101000 to 84000 from 2015 but with the withdrawal from Germany, the implied closure of smaller Army barracks to form the MRBs and the proposal to build a massive Army training area in Scotland, I really don't think the businessmen of Fife have much to worry about.

 

[mummymonkey]

I have to say this made me laugh. The idea of Lossie to EDI in sub 5 minutes from wheels off the ground is a bit extreme, is that calculation based on 1522MPH "as the crow flies" from the second it leaves the ground to the second it passes over the centre of the capital?

Yes, almost as unbelievable as 25 minutes from Leuchars to Perth.

 

[Shinyscot]

As I understand, one of the issues was that the army tend to have more singlies than the RAF, so would need more barrack accn. Surely these singlies will have more disposable income than married blokes so should have more to spend in the local area?

 

[Zeebad]

Of course it is an important issue but I would say you have to stand back from the personal opinion and ask, well two out of the three had to close, which one is fitting and right? Well the one that is best for the Nation won.

I had some fantastic times at Lyneham, St Mawgan and Cottesmore....and I dont think anyone who was in TG3 has not shed a tear for Locking, yes it was a crying shame that they closed, but as you say, the locals dealt with it and moved on to the next chapter!

"best for the nation won". Is that your personal opinion? You seem to suggest it was a competition..... pretty callous and narrow minded, considering the probable outcomes. This is my opinion:
1. People who did time (11/2 to 2 years) at Con so they had a chance to serve at Leu, will be going to Los.
2. Los pers posted to Mar.
3. UK air defense less capable due to increased Wheels of ground time and further from main threat areas.
4. Increased expenditure on infrastructure/mothball current infrastructure after considerable cost. (Taxpayer gets another kick in the swingers)
5. Los Runways may stay open to the same stats as Leu with the newly procured snow clearance equip, however a normal 3 hour drive further north when there is a blizzard will grind Logs to a halt for an indefinite period obviously. again impacting on capability. On top of that there is also a greater threat of reduced visibility from fog.
6. What becomes MEDA
7. A couple of other issues that I am not prepared to mention.

Maybe the best for the Army for the high priced help to access the R&A and that is about it. If the Army are to build more to house troops for another shake down in areas and numbers; why not build near the ranges in D & G ?

 

[grumpyoldb]

"best for the nation won". Is that your personal opinion? You seem to suggest it was a competition..... pretty callous and narrow minded, considering the probable outcomes. From what I have read, the competition was created by the local people of Leuchars, and the local people at Lossie. If you wish to blame a competition on anyone start with the locals. This is my opinion:
1. People who did time (11/2 to 2 years) at Con so they had a chance to serve at Leu, will be going to Los.
2. Los pers posted to Mar.
3. UK air defense less capable due to increased Wheels of ground time and further from main threat areas. How do you know that UK air defense will be less capable. How do YOU know where the threat will come from, and which area it will be targeted against?
4. Increased expenditure on infrastructure/mothball current infrastructure after considerable cost. (Taxpayer gets another kick in the swingers)
5. Los Runways may stay open to the same stats as Leu with the newly procured snow clearance equip, however a normal 3 hour drive further north when there is a blizzard will grind Logs to a halt for an indefinite period obviously. again impacting on capability. On top of that there is also a greater threat of reduced visibility from fog.I spent 3 years at ISL and can't remember the airfield being closed for any considerable time due to fog. We occaisionally got some sea mist rolling in at dawn, but just when everyone thought that they were going to get a stand down it clearing as quickly as it came in. It never stopped Shacks from flying and I'm sure Teabags are more capable
6. What becomes MEDA
7. A couple of other issues that I am not prepared to mention.

Maybe the best for the Army for the high priced help to access the R&A and that is about it. If the Army are to build more to house troops for another shake down in areas and numbers; why not build near the ranges in D & G ?

Your viewpoint seems to be very blinkered and not looking at the overall picture. Time to move on. The RAF is not set in stone and has been evolving for many decades and will continue to do so whether you like it or not.

 

[Joe_90]

I've been avoiding this thread as I'm pretty dissapointed that Leuchars is going and that seems to be a problem for a lot of folk on here. I'm not going to try and dress it up as some sort of outrage over UK air defence (although with my limited knowledge of what QRA can do I believe it's better at Leuchars than Lossie).

I'm upset beause there is no longer a Camp within 4 hours of Central Scotland. I didn't join the RAF to live with mum and dad. I've been posted all over the UK during my time in and I've really enjoyed it but I've only recently moved to Leuchars. I'm upset because I wanted my son to grow up able to visit his grandparents for the day. I was thinking of settling somewhere in the Central Belt and that option has been taken away from my family and me until the day I leave.

These are some of my purely selfish reasons for wanting Leuchars to stay and I think they are similar to the reasons most folk are upset about the loss of the Camp. Septic calling has helpfully pointed out that other Camps have shut in the past, generally though if people wanted to stay in that location there was somewhere else to go, there no longer is in Scotland. Lossie is four hours drive from Dundee, I've seen plenty of upset people moving from the likes of Brize Norton to Leeming, a similar journey timewise.

It's not about the defence of the UK for most of us, it's about the fact that not only are we Airmen we also have a life outside of the RAF. Something encouraged by the Service with the withdrawal of a lot of perks such as travel warrants. Allow us to be upset at the fact that after being encouraged to settle the only choice is to either live apart or move them with you. This is the first place I can think of that's shut while I've been in that has meant ALL those who stay in the Service have no opportunity to at least try and move to the next Camp to stay in their own homes.

 

[Zeebad]

Your viewpoint seems to be very blinkered and not looking at the overall picture. Time to move on. The RAF is not set in stone and has been evolving for many decades and will continue to do so whether you like it or not.

Why is it blinkered? it is my opinion, is that okay with you? Instead of stating the obvious and telling me what I should do, you could educate me in this latest evolution of the Airforce. What is the overall picture, oh wise one.

I noticed your replies in blue start with, "From what I have read", seems you can't think for yourself. I do not think it unreasonable for locals to worry about their future. In this case though, I was replying to scepticbumpinghisgums, who used the word "won". The other points you addressed questioning my knowledge about how I know, simples, I have done Q.... even at Lossie! As far as your last point, you stated yourself... "any considerable time", therefore sometimes.... it only takes one link in the chain. You compare shacks to tiffies doing Q, saying your "sure" they are more capable?

Are you a "count my posts merchant"? You seem to have eluded to comment on a few of the points I have made (are they still to come?) or do you agree with them and like all old people, you try not to moan but you cant help yourself.

 

[grumpyoldb]

you try not to moan but you cant help yourself.

If you want to know who's doing the moaning, try looking in a mirror.

 

[Realist78]

I've been avoiding this thread as I'm pretty dissapointed that Leuchars is going and that seems to be a problem for a lot of folk on here. I'm not going to try and dress it up as some sort of outrage over UK air defence (although with my limited knowledge of what QRA can do I believe it's better at Leuchars than Lossie).

I'm upset beause there is no longer a Camp within 4 hours of Central Scotland. I didn't join the RAF to live with mum and dad. I've been posted all over the UK during my time in and I've really enjoyed it but I've only recently moved to Leuchars. I'm upset because I wanted my son to grow up able to visit his grandparents for the day. I was thinking of settling somewhere in the Central Belt and that option has been taken away from my family and me until the day I leave.

These are some of my purely selfish reasons for wanting Leuchars to stay and I think they are similar to the reasons most folk are upset about the loss of the Camp. Septic calling has helpfully pointed out that other Camps have shut in the past, generally though if people wanted to stay in that location there was somewhere else to go, there no longer is in Scotland. Lossie is four hours drive from Dundee, I've seen plenty of upset people moving from the likes of Brize Norton to Leeming, a similar journey timewise.

It's not about the defence of the UK for most of us, it's about the fact that not only are we Airmen we also have a life outside of the RAF. Something encouraged by the Service with the withdrawal of a lot of perks such as travel warrants. Allow us to be upset at the fact that after being encouraged to settle the only choice is to either live apart or move them with you. This is the first place I can think of that's shut while I've been in that has meant ALL those who stay in the Service have no opportunity to at least try and move to the next Camp to stay in their own homes.

That's the most lucid post IMO on this thread about folks being p1ssed off about the closure.