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Because we work from any station the employer sees fit. I've worked from about 40 stations over the last few years due to shortages. Our current contract says we will work at any station.
Someone mentioned earlier about the strike and removal of appliances causes greater risk to the public. This is true.
Last week the brigade removed 27 appliances from stations to supply to assetco, the replacement fire service who cover. This was before the outcome of the strike ballot.
2 of the stations, Tooting and Sutton had fatal fires after the removal of fire engines.
Now who's reckless?
Last night the Chair of the LFB, the disgusting Brian Coleman said he'd meet the FBU to discuss the issue at our HQ. He didn't turn up, neither did the Commisioner.
Someone mentioned earlier about the strike and removal of appliances causes greater risk to the public. This is true.
Last week the brigade removed 27 appliances from stations to supply to assetco, the replacement fire service who cover. This was before the outcome of the strike ballot.
2 of the stations, Tooting and Sutton had fatal fires after the removal of fire engines.
Now who's reckless?
Last night the Chair of the LFB, the disgusting Brian Coleman said he'd meet the FBU to discuss the issue at our HQ. He didn't turn up, neither did the Commisioner.
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Perhaps he was busy doing refresher training to provide cover for the forthcoming strike?
T
The Masked Geek
Guest
Had there been no threat of a strike, their action would not have happened.
Reckless? Maybe. Necessary? Yes.
You seem to have a little growing support on here, don't spoil it.
DT_Xtremez_14:True Blue Jack
Warrant Officer
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What happened to all the older red appliances the MOD acquired to replace Green Goddesses in 2002/3? Can't Assetco use those?
In your considered opinion, would lives have been saved had the appliances not been removed? I only ask because, despite the hype before the fact, fatalities during the 2002/3 strike remained at 'normal' levels. Despite manning fewer fire stations with fewer and less capable appliances.
Firestorm, I fear you are not going to win many supporters around here. Times are tough for all in the public sector but from my (I admit, spectator's) perspective it seems the London FBU are making a lot of noise about very little. Your employers will always win if only because there are up to 40 applicants for every firefighter vacancy, and it doesn't help that Andy Gilchrist destroyed the Fire Brigades' reputation in the public eye with his uber-militancy 8 years ago. For that, at least, you have my sympathy.
If your terms of employment have eroded to the point you feel it necessary to quit, I'm sure any one of the airports within reasonable commuting distance would be very happy to employ you.
A
Aces and Eights
Guest
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"Thank you for phoning 999 and asking for the Fire Service. Currently all our firefighters are on their guaranteed one hour uninterrupted meal break, but as soon as that finishes someone will respond to your emergency. In the meantime please try and douse the flames yourself and do your utmost to calm any person trapped in the burning building. Remember, your call is important to us."
I guess people will have to book car crashes, fires and the multitude of other emergency incidents the fire service called out to so it doesn't conflict with a meal time.
I guess we'll have aircrew arranging the flying programme so they don't land, take off or need the aircraft servicing at GMT (groundcrew meal time).
Then again, it might just be the Sun up to its usual level of journalistic accuracy.
DT_Xtremez_42:I'm not after supporters here. I just want people to look at the reality as opposed to the propaganda.
Assetco can take as many of the fire engines as they like. After all they own every one, as well as the vast majority of the equipment they carry with the exception of hose/line and BA.
The 2 lives were lost before we went into dispute. The brigade decided to remove the engines as oposed to removing the threat to sack us all, thus ending any chance of a settlement.
If you don't think that an employer terminating an entire workforces contract, simply to enforce changes is a bad thing, well thats your perogative.
I won't leave for several reasons. First I love my job, I really do. Despite the crap we get from our employers I'm glad I make a real, tangible difference to peoples lives. I also won't quit because I have pension contributions (including my RAF pension) that go back nearly 25 years. At 11% a month thats a hell of a lot to throw away. Last month I paid £346 into my pension, I don't want that frozen untill I'm 65.
Work at an airport? No thanks. I did that in my RAF time. Its not for me, anyway, like the RAF they also have big queues of people to join.
Mind you, there are always people wanting to be MPs as well, I don't seem to recall that being a reason for them getting of the gravy train.
The end game is reduction of night time cover by closing stations at night and removing appliances. They state that there are less calls at night and while this is true its also the time when most fire deaths and injuries occur and when the biggest fires happen.
The time when you face greatest risk is not the time to have least resources on.
I'm afraid that article is nothing but lies. As was the Daily Mail article today, both have been referred to the PCC.
It refers to an off the cuff comment in negotiations (before they broke down) when the management tabled another set of strings. These conditions included attending medicals on your days off, removal of dental, and medical payments. And something called direct standbys, were you'd have to report direct to a station of their choosing without incurring overtime. Currently we're sent to stand by during the shift. This would have actually cost us money. The union official made a flippent remark, and also asked for other things such as (teas maids!) To highlight how ridiculous the employers demand were. Somehow (you guess!) this off the cuff comment has been leaked. Go figure.
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It's strange because The Scum and the Dail Mail are normally so accurate in their reporting!!
Why do people on this forum always see any industrial action by the fire brigade as a "them and us" issue? It isn't! The government were the ones that said that the Armed Forces were the ones to cover the last time and this time it won't even involve the Armed Forces.
What really p1sses me off though is the "if they don't like the way the employers are treating them then they can leave (or be sacked) and someone else will do it" attitude. If we went with that idea then there would be no;
1. Paid Annual Leave
2. Paid Sick leave
3. Overtime payments
4. Health & Safety (not just the OTT stuff, but the real, life saving, H&S)
5. Paid meal breaks
6. Pensions
In fact, there would be no rights for workers at all! And who do we have to thank for all these........the Unions, yes, those lefty hoodlems! Because, if you go back 100 years workers did no have these rights, employers could do pretty much whatever they wanted. Off sick, tough, you don't get paid! What do you mean you want a pair of ear defenders to stop you going deaf, tough, buy them yourself or go look for a job elsewhere.....
Do we really want to end up like India, Pakistan or China where workers work all day and night for next to nothing with no rights whatsoever?
Be careful what you wish for people, you will be out in the real workforce soon enough!
Why do people on this forum always see any industrial action by the fire brigade as a "them and us" issue? It isn't! The government were the ones that said that the Armed Forces were the ones to cover the last time and this time it won't even involve the Armed Forces.
What really p1sses me off though is the "if they don't like the way the employers are treating them then they can leave (or be sacked) and someone else will do it" attitude. If we went with that idea then there would be no;
1. Paid Annual Leave
2. Paid Sick leave
3. Overtime payments
4. Health & Safety (not just the OTT stuff, but the real, life saving, H&S)
5. Paid meal breaks
6. Pensions
In fact, there would be no rights for workers at all! And who do we have to thank for all these........the Unions, yes, those lefty hoodlems! Because, if you go back 100 years workers did no have these rights, employers could do pretty much whatever they wanted. Off sick, tough, you don't get paid! What do you mean you want a pair of ear defenders to stop you going deaf, tough, buy them yourself or go look for a job elsewhere.....
Do we really want to end up like India, Pakistan or China where workers work all day and night for next to nothing with no rights whatsoever?
Be careful what you wish for people, you will be out in the real workforce soon enough!
Agree with the sentiment but the changes you refer to were not achieved by TU action but by UK and EU legislation. The exception being pensions which were introduced in the late 19th Century by Bismark.
The flip side to your argument is that Union action over the years, in particular the late 60s thru to middle 70s brought economic ruin to this country without the workers actually benefiting excessively.
fed_up_scribbly
Corporal
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KG - so glad to see all that study for the CIPD is paying off!
Off TopicLMAO - nice to see you back FUS. Now get off the fence and start posting!Off Topic
Not entirely correct, though paid sickness and leave is a legislative product, the legislation occurred after union campaigns.
The same can be said for H&S amongst others.
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propersplitbrainme
Warrant Officer
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But the sentiment is the important thing surely? As Firestorm says,
Firestorm said:
If employers find they can just sack their employees wholesale and re-employ them, or an alternative workforce, on reduced terms and conditions then we could potentially see a downward spiral as workers are shunted from one job to another.
The media has a lot to answer for in this IMHO, it has set about stirring up anger towards public sector workers through its opinion columns and the way it couches its stories; they are not content with just reporting the news these days, they want to push peoples opinions in the direction of their own. For so long as things were rosy in the private sector gardens, nobody gave a damn about public sectors pay, conditions, pensions etc. Yes, the last Labour administration did swelll the ranks a lot, but now all of a sudden the rest of us are the architects of the crisis because our pensions etc were not gambled away by greedy bankers looking to make themselves a quicker buck.
Kingguin said:
That is true, but the union militancy of that era has been brought under control hasn't it?