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Maa & trimble

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Another point....

How many of us would be over the drink drive limit in the morning? Is that the next step? Before entering a vehicle, personnel are subjected to a breath test.... I've seen some pretty sorry States in my own crew room as well as the professional drivers amongst th masses.
 
We have test kits and there are several people on station authorised to use them.

I'll apologise for the 'ignorance' comment purely because I feel it puts across what I am trying to say in the wrong tone. I was ignorant to MT before crossing over to the dark side. I shouldn't have been and I feel the reason for my ignorance was largely down to the way these regs are delivered and as such I have a lot of sympathy for those who fall foul of it. I also think that education is the best course of action.

I have never said that the way the OP is being dealt with is the correct course of action, I have merely stated that IMO he is bang to rights and I stand by that.

On a recent exercise I was responsible for MT which required all deployed Pers to complete drivers hours paperwork. Again due to poor delivery and education prior to deployment there was a lot of education required in location. Again this could have been avoided with better communication and preparation but I'm sure we've all seen that on every exercise we've ever been on.


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Another slant

Another slant

I know a lot of guys who didn't sign the paperwork so they wouldn't get caught if there was a ticket floating around.

This now smells as a "make an example" exercise.
People will make an effort fro a few weeks and then it will be someone else to be caught out.

If the OP made the journey on that day and there is no paperwork to back it up, its fairly cut and dried I guess.
 
If their MAA'ing for not completing the paperwork I'd say your bang to rights, I get the feeling you are being made an example of however it may well be a case of sucking it up and playing the game on this one, I bet you won't forget to complete the paperwork again?

as for the use of trimble I can see how its useful for fleet management and its mere presence can stop people driving like bellends however as an uncalibrated system (which by its very nature gps location is) it would be very shaky ground to take any action against a person using its evidence alone.

on a previous sqn we had a so called wall of shame listing all the amber and red lights which due to its location on the A15 would see everyone get at least one red for accelerating whilst turning just to get off camp.
 
briggfairy said:
I a previous sqn we had a so called wall of shame listing all the amber and red lights which due to its location on the A15 would see everyone get at least one red for accelerating whilst turning just to get off camp.
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It was also very confused by the inbound main drag just after the JRM car park, seemed to think the speed limit was much lower than it actually was. God bless those non-TRIMBLE landies ;)
 
I don't think it's possible to leave wittering without the thing having a fit. I'd rather have a naughty orange light flickering, than an 18 wheeler up my 'arris!
 
RAF Bird said:
Someone once told me a story about a court martial where a guy was being done for not adhering to something that was in standing orders. His solicitor asked the charging officer to quote something which he had put into orders not 3 months before the trial. Of course the officer couldn't remember anything about it - solicitor asked how he expected the young airman to remember something from almost a year ago when the charging officer couldn't even remember something he had written 3 months ago. Case was dropped.

We sign orders once a year and they are so big now a days I'm sure most of us would be hard pushed to remember every little thing we've read. I drive service vehicles quite regularly yet when I arrived at a destination 2 days ago I noticed the 'journey start milage' block was empty as I'd simply forgotten to complete that block. We're not robots at the end of the day and when it's paperwork you aren't completing all the time, with the best of wills in the world you do forget.

The OP says himself he simply doesn't remember speeding - if this is genuinely the case I would definitely question the calibration of the Trimble.
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HAHA my Solicitor Gilbert Blades told me this story. He was the Solicitor in question...
 
I too have heard that story. It just wasn't valid in this case given that the OP stated that he hadn't signed for the vehicle yet clearly knew he had to. Nothing to do with memory loss or changes in orders.


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I asked for a formal review at 9am on Friday morning, it states the review has to be carried out within 24 hours or the next working day, I still haven't heatd anything. Any thoughts?
 
Puma said:
Delboy - how did they know you were driving?
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delboy said:
Back tracking and looking at the pattern of journies made.
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It sounds like they are suspecting you of driving without any real proof. And trying to screw you just using suspicion alone.

Just using a pattern of journeys made would not stand in a proper hearing, just because you drove in the past doesn't prove that you drove today. Even in Scottish civil / crown courts, a list of previous convictions can't be used as evidence to prove you convicted this time.

Are you sure you drove on that date and another task did not unexpectedly appear or you had to take a phone call? As that van could have been driven by anyone on that day.

Dellboy, you don't have to prove anything at all, it's upto them to prove beyond all doubt.

You are even in your rights to only answer "no comment" and its perfectly acceptable, legally they are not allowed to judge your decision not to say anything or look into it as something to hide or not co-operating, because you have the right. But if you do say something they'll always manipulate it or take it out of context to use against you, remember the role of certain organisations is to convict people, the more convictions better their KPI's or statistics look, so if they can use anything you say to nail you they will.

If I wasn't driving that day, I would say that. Then nothing else.
 
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It was quite funny as I was thinking of the 'no comment' approach but he started banging on about honesty and integrity etc. I honestly thought it wouldn't stick as he himself is guilty of the same offence ffs. They have dug up archived FMT1001 sheets from 5 months ago at MT and put my name to it, we too have the archived forms in a folder in work. After the interview I went to that folder and found the same person who just MAA'd me had committed the same offence on numerous occasions, not to mention everyone else. Anyway I asked for a review which still hasn't been carried out, i'm hoping it drags out a week as it's only playing into my hands for a service complaint, i'll keep you posted.
 
delboy said:
It was quite funny as I was thinking of the 'no comment' approach but he started banging on about honesty and integrity etc. I honestly thought it wouldn't stick as he himself is guilty of the same offence ffs. They have dug up archived FMT1001 sheets from 5 months ago at MT and put my name to it, we too have the archived forms in a folder in work. After the interview I went to that folder and found the same person who just MAA'd me had committed the same offence on numerous occasions, not to mention everyone else. ...
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Calls into question the integrity of the officer - how are you supposed to hold any respect for the man now?
And now I think about it how can anyone who knows about your MMA and the fact that the officer has also committed the same offence but got away with it respect him?
I would think that he has shown considerable mis-judgement by actioning the MMA against you; in my opinion he should have declared a conflict of interest or something akin to that. If you were to push hard on this on it could well come back to bite him on the arse, I'm sure his Stn Cmdr would have a strong word or two for him regarding "integrity and honesty".
 
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Teh Wal said:
Calls into question the integrity of the officer - how are you supposed to hold any respect for the man now?
And now I think about it how can anyone who knows about your MMA and the fact that the officer has also committed the same offence but got away with it respect him?
I would think that he has shown considerable mis-judgement by actioning the MMA against you; in my opinion he should have declared a conflict of interest or something akin to that. If you were to push hard on this on it could well come back to bite him on the arse, I'm sure his Stn Cmdr would have a strong word or two for him regarding "integrity and honesty".
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Honesty and integrity aren't necessary qualities for JOs these days. And if it rolled how it did where I work this last month, the direction of who to MAA was selected from the very top and the actioner had little if any discretion.
 
Downsizer said:
Honesty and integrity aren't necessary qualities for JOs these days. And if it rolled how it did where I work this last month, the direction of who to MAA was selected from the very top and the actioner had little if any discretion.
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Very sad state of affairs if the first part of that is true and widespread.
 
Downsizer said:
Honesty and integrity aren't necessary qualities for JOs these days...
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Those 2 attributes are integral parts, if not at the heart, of the Chain of Command. Everyone within the RAF, nay the Armed Forces, should be well aware of that but they double in importance as soon as anyone takes on the mantle of command - from corporal upwards they are vital in achieving the trust, faith and respect of those below, the subordinates: they are essential in that task, that should always be high in mind but is more often than not forgotten about, known as "Setting the example". And if what you say about JOs is the case then the training regime is failing them.

Jeez, I'm beginning to sound like ILLBW :PDT_Xtremez_21:
 
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