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I think you misconstrued my comments there FL.
The question does remain though.
The question does remain though.
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He is just the new TBJ isn't he??!! :-D Everyone needs a despised figure on here that likes to patronise everyone with their 'superior' intelligence. Makes it so much more fun
FL is a valued member of this site (as you are) so give him a break dude.
This Trimble thing is definitely in need of more discussion and FL's opinions are more than valid but I still can't see the value that Trimble adds to the RAF or the MOD as a whole.
FOGHORN LEGHORN
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Maa & trimble
RJL I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and sh!t a better statement than that. Do you seriously come on here for some depraved attention seeking playground antics? Seriously the distance between your ego and your IQ is almost as worrying as your begging for people to agree with you.
Does it make you feel better? Is posting on here like a hug for you? Did daddy not give you enough attention? Or worse did he give you too much? Feel free to PM me and I'll give you the number for SSAFA...
This message was sent using my thumb.
RJL I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and sh!t a better statement than that. Do you seriously come on here for some depraved attention seeking playground antics? Seriously the distance between your ego and your IQ is almost as worrying as your begging for people to agree with you.
Does it make you feel better? Is posting on here like a hug for you? Did daddy not give you enough attention? Or worse did he give you too much? Feel free to PM me and I'll give you the number for SSAFA...
This message was sent using my thumb.
FOGHORN LEGHORN
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And I'll be honest and say I don't know the answer. Anything I could offer would be pure speculation. If people driving within speed limits and more carefully due to the big brother boxes in vehicles reduces accidents then there is your saving.
Whether or not this is an effective way of achieving that is of course debatable.
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FL. Calm down mate. You are giving us a good insight into how Trimble is administered but let us hear more from the guys who see it as not such a useful quality tool. Such as the OP.
The way the system has been used to shaft me is laughable, they wrote up a list of speeding offences and they only decided to start at all offences with 20% above the speed limit. Everyones name was down the side and along the top it was columned off with 20-24%, 25-29% right up to 70-74%, i was in the first column with 1 offence in 20-24%.
The next thing you notice is that plenty of people are filling up each column, say 4 offences in the 20-24 then 2 in the 35-39 etc. If they deemed the amount of offences serious enough then your row was red as opposed to black, a WC was in black but had the same amount of offences as a flt lt of sqn ldr, make what you wish of that, don't froget thia list is for the 1 month alone earlier in the year.
I was obviously in black but it's only when trimble threw up the report and they decided to look into it, my name wasn't on the FMT paperwork, but when you look at the archived paperwork right the way back then you can guarantee every man and his dog has flaws on it, to which I have proof and I bet it's RAF wide.
I'm not sure how to approach tomorrow in work with regards to the formal review of the MAA, it's all new to me so not sure what happena with that?
One last thing to note is do we not care about people who are going 1-19% above the speed limit? Also I didn't get MAA'd for speeding so you can see that people are committing half a dozen speeding offences with no action taken against them, my boss told me it was more serious to not fill out 1 line on the FMT than to speed, I asked him was he sure about that and he aaid yes!!
The next thing you notice is that plenty of people are filling up each column, say 4 offences in the 20-24 then 2 in the 35-39 etc. If they deemed the amount of offences serious enough then your row was red as opposed to black, a WC was in black but had the same amount of offences as a flt lt of sqn ldr, make what you wish of that, don't froget thia list is for the 1 month alone earlier in the year.
I was obviously in black but it's only when trimble threw up the report and they decided to look into it, my name wasn't on the FMT paperwork, but when you look at the archived paperwork right the way back then you can guarantee every man and his dog has flaws on it, to which I have proof and I bet it's RAF wide.
I'm not sure how to approach tomorrow in work with regards to the formal review of the MAA, it's all new to me so not sure what happena with that?
One last thing to note is do we not care about people who are going 1-19% above the speed limit? Also I didn't get MAA'd for speeding so you can see that people are committing half a dozen speeding offences with no action taken against them, my boss told me it was more serious to not fill out 1 line on the FMT than to speed, I asked him was he sure about that and he aaid yes!!
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FOGHORN LEGHORN
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The reviewing officer is part of the MAA process and is someone for you to clear up any concerns you might have or at least point you in the right direction. Should you still not be satisfied you can go to P1. Not necessarily to complain but to put across your concerns.
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How much time is being wasted trying to enforce this Trimble based "Big Brother" speeding clampdown? Kind of defeats the point of having it in the first place which is I assume to save time and money. We should leave the enforcement of speed limits on civillian roads to the experts I.e. the civilian police.
The OP should just accept the maa, after all you by your own admission you didn't complete the paperwork so what's wrong? Imo you're bang to rights, the speeding issue is another matter.
The OP should just accept the maa, after all you by your own admission you didn't complete the paperwork so what's wrong? Imo you're bang to rights, the speeding issue is another matter.
what about 1 of the lads who gets in a vehicle next week, or the management and they don't complete the paperwork correctly, where does it end ffs?!?!?! Why take everything in the chin? Am I a walk over? No. Do I want everyone from now on to be MAA'd? Not at all.
That's life, not everyone who makes a mistake gets caught, in this case you have. I probably go over the speed limit every time I drive as do most people but I couldn't complain when I'm caught by a camera or copper that others are speeding as well and not getting caught. As I said in my previous you are in your own words guilty of not completing the MT paperwork it doesn't matter one iota what others might "get away" with in this case the maa has your name on it not theirs.
It's been an interesting read over the last few days! IMHO there is no cut and dry answer to this one mate. I don't think you will ever find one person (unless they are a saint) who hasn't ever broken the speed limit. I have.... have I been caught no.... does that make what I did right?..... no. Have I ever driven an MT vehicle without filling in the paperwork?... yes..... did I know I was supposed to fill it in?.... yes...... again does that make what I did right?.... no.
Maybe a more appropriate approach would be to advertise the stats (no names included!!) on the Unit with a reminder of individuals obligations, draw a line in the sand and say from such a date if you are caught, you have all been refreshed of the rules and therefore have no excuse. If as you say there are numerous individuals on the stats sheet then the process of informing people of their individual responsibility is not working..... Yep I'll await the 'you sign for the order's but how many of those do we sign for across the board now?
I renewed my 600 about 7 weeks ago and can't remember reading anything about Trimble (that may just be a unit thing) but if you are going to use it against individuals then shouldn't they be educated about it?
Maybe a more appropriate approach would be to advertise the stats (no names included!!) on the Unit with a reminder of individuals obligations, draw a line in the sand and say from such a date if you are caught, you have all been refreshed of the rules and therefore have no excuse. If as you say there are numerous individuals on the stats sheet then the process of informing people of their individual responsibility is not working..... Yep I'll await the 'you sign for the order's but how many of those do we sign for across the board now?
I renewed my 600 about 7 weeks ago and can't remember reading anything about Trimble (that may just be a unit thing) but if you are going to use it against individuals then shouldn't they be educated about it?
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Dan_Brown
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Didn't know it was called Trimble, but when these devices were initially rolled out we were briefed that it most certainly was NOT big brother watching and the captured data will certainly NOT be used for admin/disciplinary purposes - lol! I think they actually justified it as a stat collector and accident reducing tool!
But after reading through the previous pages, it appears that the speeding angle has now been removed (ivory towers realising this is a no-go?) and they have identified an issue with the paperwork been filled in incorrectly (ie phew! we got him for something!)
As other posters have said, you have been singled out, but unfortunately section 1 of the unlucky act.
At the end of the day, you could push this and it would make uncomfortable reading for some and certainly some activity behind closed doors would ensue, but none of this negates the fact that you have disobeyed MT Orders/SSOs etc!
But after reading through the previous pages, it appears that the speeding angle has now been removed (ivory towers realising this is a no-go?) and they have identified an issue with the paperwork been filled in incorrectly (ie phew! we got him for something!)
As other posters have said, you have been singled out, but unfortunately section 1 of the unlucky act.
At the end of the day, you could push this and it would make uncomfortable reading for some and certainly some activity behind closed doors would ensue, but none of this negates the fact that you have disobeyed MT Orders/SSOs etc!
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i agree mate, digging up what happened half the year ago wasn't the smartest thing to do giwen that alot has happened since then. That line in the sand approach may have helped.
chumpzilla
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Did he get 5 months worth of his MAA review date backdated? Seems fair if he can be retrospectively fudged 5 months worth! Do you remember what you were doing 5 months ago? I bloody can't....!
FOGHORN LEGHORN
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No I don't but given that all MT paperwork is kept for a two year period, if there was an audit carried out and 18 months ago I hadn't completed required paperwork etc I could hardly argue with it. If it's there in black and white with an MT request form but an incomplete FMT1001 then it's a fair cop.
I was ignorant to a lot that goes on in MT when I was a techie and I recognise a lot of that ignorance within this thread. That said I think that the responsibility lies with MT to better communicate what they do and the reasons why. Clearly this isn't being done.
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I was ignorant to a lot that goes on in MT when I was a techie and I recognise a lot of that ignorance within this thread. That said I think that the responsibility lies with MT to better communicate what they do and the reasons why. Clearly this isn't being done.
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chumpzilla
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I'm not a perfect driver, I guess that nobody is. However, I was saddened to hear (I can't remember when) I heard that the device that I believed was used for insurance purposes was being turned into a tool for punishing the unfortunate (and yes, sometimes malicious).
I don't recall who said who mentioned it, but I thought we were meant to be in a "just culture", not a blame one! In my role, as an "ignorant" techie in a supervisory position, I have bear witness to some minor funk ups that have delayed exercise play for 5 minutes but I didn't take action upon the team or individual, we just learned from it and raised it as a lesson to use to improve for next time.
I'm not advocating we speed, but I am an ambassador of education rather than punishing if someone makes an error....
We aren't perfect. I can't recount chapter and verse of AP600 (my bible) or any other publication. I rely on the teamwork and esprit de corps of my brothers and sisters pan-trade to guide me if I have done wrong, not chastise me. I'm frequently at the desk of our adminers asking questions about claims, for example...!
If people want to punish and see "black and white" in a colourful world then they will add to the divisive nature that was originally banter based and will soon become more aggressive. Based on your argument of rules and regs, the majority of us would be out of a job due to the amount of bullying, E&D cases apparent! Instead of a immediate MAA action, why not have an escalation in a different way? Re-education, followed by a test....? Just a thought
I don't recall who said who mentioned it, but I thought we were meant to be in a "just culture", not a blame one! In my role, as an "ignorant" techie in a supervisory position, I have bear witness to some minor funk ups that have delayed exercise play for 5 minutes but I didn't take action upon the team or individual, we just learned from it and raised it as a lesson to use to improve for next time.
I'm not advocating we speed, but I am an ambassador of education rather than punishing if someone makes an error....
We aren't perfect. I can't recount chapter and verse of AP600 (my bible) or any other publication. I rely on the teamwork and esprit de corps of my brothers and sisters pan-trade to guide me if I have done wrong, not chastise me. I'm frequently at the desk of our adminers asking questions about claims, for example...!
If people want to punish and see "black and white" in a colourful world then they will add to the divisive nature that was originally banter based and will soon become more aggressive. Based on your argument of rules and regs, the majority of us would be out of a job due to the amount of bullying, E&D cases apparent! Instead of a immediate MAA action, why not have an escalation in a different way? Re-education, followed by a test....? Just a thought