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PAYD Bringing ISS To Its Knees

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You probably have to look to your CT's, FS's and WO's of today and ask them if they were the whingeing generation as that would be about right timing wise...The irony is that at that time they wanted what is in now but the majority of them will now own their own houses and only use the messes for functions!
 
I am indeed wrong on this subject and am happy to provide the evidence that contradicts my views on this subject.
I may be a lot of things, but standing up and apologising when I'm wrong is not something I'm afraid to do.

Below is a link, that gives a pretty thorough timeline of the origins of PAYD.

I'm sorry for anyone I offended, I was speaking up for what I believed but was wrong. I'm happy to put the matter straight. I will be making that £10 donation at the earliest opportunity.

http://www.defencemanagement.com/article.asp?id=200&content_name=Catering&article=5157
 
Mentalist said:
I am indeed wrong on this subject and am happy to provide the evidence that contradicts my views on this subject.
I may be a lot of things, but standing up and apologising when I'm wrong is not something I'm afraid to do.

Below is a link, that gives a pretty thorough timeline of the origins of PAYD.

I'm sorry for anyone I offended, I was speaking up for what I believed but was wrong. I'm happy to put the matter straight. I will be making that £10 donation at the earliest opportunity.

http://www.defencemanagement.com/article.asp?id=200&content_name=Catering&article=5157
Click to expand...

Good man.

Your experiences of PAYD are what I feared when it was being trailled in the years running up to me leaving the service. Companies contracted to provide services to the MOD take the p1ss whenever the opportunity arises and the experiences of PAYD 'customers' in this thread suggests thats exactly whats happening. If ISS were occupying a franchise booth in a motorway service station they'd have to up their game or customers would simply go to the other outlets for their snacks and meals so maybe thats the way ahead for PAYD, turn the mess into a multi-franchise outlet where you have a choice of fast food or square meals provided by nationally recognised brand names who have everything to lose in terms of their company name by providing below standard fare.
 
I joined in 1970 and left in 2009 so I have seen this whole debate from start to finish. As a singly in the early days half of my pay went on food and accommodation - simple fact. I wasn't alone when asked by any visiting dignitary what was my biggest issue with service life it was the cost of food & accom. But why did we bitch? I worked on a Sqn based on the far side of a Lincolnshire air force station and we had one Sqn vehicle; an RVT with 3 seats - though you could, and regularly did break the law and stand up best part of 40 blokes in the back stood up like sardines - providing there was beer involved. None of us livers in went to breakfast as it usually wasn't open when we went in, there was no Sqn feeder though our commissioned brethren where better catered for, we rarely got to lunch as there was no transport so we spent our own cash on bacon butties and other savories and comestibles from the self organized Sqn T Bar. So back to us moaning singlies we paid for breakfast we couldn't eat, lunch we rarely got and if you did get to lunch the fekkin SWO or one of his Honcho's would be hunting you down. On nights there was no light meal for a singly getting out of bed mid afternoon and as for supper, if you could get transport, you could get in the RVT with the rest, drop the Snecs off at the mess then drive to the Bowl for a few cheeky beers, then send one of the FLM's into the airman's mess to nick a tray of pies. So again why did we whinge? There were livers in who were married, bean stealers, they ate for free and were accommodated for free. The married guys who lived locally somehow qualified for a free duty supper though they did have to buy a meal ticket for day time meals. So whenever we got the chance we asked why it was we had to pay for meals we were unable to eat. And the standards answer from the war gods? "the meal was available for you the fact that you didn't get it is of no matter" "It will cost you more in the long run" the next question we asked "Why can't we buy a meal ticket like the married guys did and only pay for the meals we ate?" "why do we have to pay for meals when we are away at the weekend (we couldn't submit a leave pass for weekends) and the war gods reply was "I can't risk the lives of my brave aircrew having aircraft serviced by oily ticks who haven't been eating properly". What the war god meant was "Fook me if this goes ahead the singlies will no longer be subsidising the whole catering system and it will cost us a fortune" bury this until we can invent something that won't cost us a fortune and they did. Over the years the do gooders arranged for singlies to put leave passes in to avoid meal charges at weekends Bean stealers eventually had to pay for meals but at a rate that assumed they were home at weekends so their cost was was 5/7 of a singlies. Then people on dets/courses over 30 days started paying for meals and so now you had a big crowd once more demanding not to pay for meals they couldn't or didn't eat. So the doors were wide open for PAYD. No one asked for PAYD but plenty of people had asked that they not pay for meals they didn't eat. That in a nut shell is it - you reap what you sew but as with all things military the generation that suffers are the ones that follow. But if I could repeat an answer that was a regular reply from the Orrifices when we moaned about married guys eating free - GET FEKKIN MARRIED
 
Hu Jardon said:
So whenever we got the chance we asked why it was we had to pay for meals we were unable to eat.
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Hu has it pretty much spot on in his piece and the above quote sums up many a meeting with roadshow teams I attended. It was the percieved wrong of paying for stuff you didn't eat that was major factor in the communal whinging that went on back then. Your typical singlie that doesn't eat breakfast, goes home very weekend so that's 30 breakfasts, 8 lunches and 8 evening meals he pays for every month yet never sees, add in shift work and that's a lot of missed meals. He wants to pay only for what he eats and nothing else, it all seems fair at the time and he makes his feelings known at every oportunity in every roadshow meeting. The rub is that the subsquent massive reduction in income doesn't allow the spud peelers to produce the same quality of stuff they used to when the money paid for meals, you didn't eat, subsidised the ones you did. PAYD perhaps it's my fault for whinging back in the 80's.
 
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Mentalist said:
I am indeed wrong on this subject and am happy to provide the evidence that contradicts my views on this subject.
I may be a lot of things, but standing up and apologising when I'm wrong is not something I'm afraid to do.

Below is a link, that gives a pretty thorough timeline of the origins of PAYD.

I'm sorry for anyone I offended, I was speaking up for what I believed but was wrong. I'm happy to put the matter straight. I will be making that £10 donation at the earliest opportunity.

http://www.defencemanagement.com/article.asp?id=200&content_name=Catering&article=5157
Click to expand...

Off TopicShame you made such a c0ck of yourself first.

At least everyone knows what to expect next time someone dares to post something you don't agree with.******
stfuOff Topic

Good post Hu - nail hit on head.
 
What isn't a suprise is that there was no way any kind of don't pay for what you don't eat was going to be rolled out at the expense of the MoD. As a result the ones that pay are the diners. But lets not forget the contractors didn't go into this blindly, they said they could afford to give you 3 square meals a day at a core cost, they didn't just say it they fekkin promised it and the MoD aren't innocent either they are paying through the nose for Contract Monitoring teams that are probably turning a blind eye in the hope they can get a job with the contractor in the future. But what is really criminal is that the powers that be couldn't give a flying fcuk ..............
 
The advent of PAYD represents a huge quality of life improvement for our sailors, soldiers and airmen. It gives them previously undreamt of levels of choice and encourages individual responsibility.

I may not be alone in thinking that sentence from Lt Col Bill Sharpe is a load of old b0ll0cks. The food in the SNCOs mess at Brize is the worst I've encountered in my 22 years in the RAF
 
hobbes said:
Off TopicShame you made such a c0ck of yourself first.

At least everyone knows what to expect next time someone dares to post something you don't agree with.******
stfuOff Topic

Good post Hu - nail hit on head.
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I assume the above is perfectly acceptable posting on here ??

I made a mistake acting with good intentions, researched the topic deeper due to the amount of people who said I was wrong, I found the info online, even posted a link that gave some good info, made a sincere apology and yet I have to put up with a personally insulting post like the one above.
 
Mentalist said:
I assume the above is perfectly acceptable posting on here ??

I made a mistake acting with good intentions, researched the topic deeper due to the amount of people who said I was wrong, I found the info online, even posted a link that gave some good info, made a sincere apology and yet I have to put up with a personally insulting post like the one above.
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Of course it's acceptable. This isn't a sewing and knitting forum. Are you really in the RAF? Cos you don't seem to have grasped the basics of banter.
 
Mentalist said:
I assume the above is perfectly acceptable posting on here ??

I made a mistake acting with good intentions, researched the topic deeper due to the amount of people who said I was wrong, I found the info online, even posted a link that gave some good info, made a sincere apology and yet I have to put up with a personally insulting post like the one above.
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Good god mental boy, are you for real?

You come on here as a new boy, tell people who have been around far longer than you they are wrong, and take a swing at the mods for the way they run the site along the way - then finally do your research and find they were actually right and you were wrong.

Kudos for the apology, but maybe learn to to do some research and be sure of your facts before attacking other viewpoints first in future? else, frankly, you come across as a whiney little princess.

Also, you seem to feel it's OK to attack others if you believe you are right (even when you are demonstrably not!)- then act like a ****** when someone says anything to you?

I assume you are a part of this RAF? - at least it's how you come across to the rest of us by your own actions - just sayin!.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqqGGxZqhLA
 
Mentalist said:
I assume the above is perfectly acceptable posting on here ??

I made a mistake acting with good intentions, researched the topic deeper due to the amount of people who said I was wrong, I found the info online, even posted a link that gave some good info, made a sincere apology and yet I have to put up with a personally insulting post like the one above.
Click to expand...

I thought your apology was bang on but do dry your eyes princess.

Max Reheat said:
The advent of PAYD represents a huge quality of life improvement for our sailors, soldiers and airmen. It gives them previously undreamt of levels of choice and encourages individual responsibility.

I may not be alone in thinking that sentence from Lt Col Bill Sharpe is a load of old b0ll0cks. The food in the SNCOs mess at Brize is the worst I've encountered in my 22 years in the RAF
Click to expand...

I read that and thought I was hallucinating, what a load of sh1te!
 
ISS are shooting themselves in the foot in the secret fife base, removing all customer favorites from the menu, and serving next to nothing healthy and when it is healthy charging more for it. It's now illegal to cook in the blocks with SLA orders stating it to be a fire hazard by overloading the electrical ciruits or some other nonsence (the fire section deny this is the case) and if you're caught you're charged.
 
Toffee-Scouser said:
ISS are shooting themselves in the foot in the secret fife base, removing all customer favorites from the menu, and serving next to nothing healthy and when it is healthy charging more for it. It's now illegal to cook in the blocks with SLA orders stating it to be a fire hazard by overloading the electrical ciruits or some other nonsence (the fire section deny this is the case) and if you're caught you're charged.
Click to expand...

Isn't it part of the PAYD/SLAM contract to have facilities in the block to cook for yourself? If someone was caught and charged i'd love to see what happened if they took it to court martial.
 
that was in the JSP, but when ISS took over all the hobs got disconnected and then taken out of the block because they were "fire hazards" as deemed by OC catering
 
Is there any remedial plans on the go to replace the hobs or make them safe for use in the block? If not then surely they are leaving themselves wide open for a service complaint. If there are no cooking facilities then put a case in to get your accomodation re-graded to a lower grade if it isn't grade 4.
 
Toffee-Scouser:548552 said:
ISS are shooting themselves in the foot in the secret fife base, removing all customer favorites from the menu, and serving next to nothing healthy and when it is healthy charging more for it. It's now illegal to cook in the blocks with SLA orders stating it to be a fire hazard by overloading the electrical ciruits or some other nonsence (the fire section deny this is the case) and if you're caught you're charged.
Click to expand...

When I was at a secret fide fighter base they spent a fortune putting in New hibs for us then wouldn't wire them up due to "fire regulations" q a load of us techies wiring them up ourselves so they final relented and put in a push button to cut power after 5 minutes, so you couldn't put a pan on and walk away you had to keep pushing the button. I got a big box of my George foreman grills back when I left as they were all nabbed by Joe swo on his rounds, and we weren't supposed to have them.
 
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