Trade Group 1 Pay Rise

[Bucc Boy]

I especially like this bit on the next page:

"Techician NCOs will not be expected to undertake administrative work or station duties".

Where do I sign up for this RAF?

I agree but it does go on to justify this exclusion from administrative work or station duties...........​

"They will however, have responsibility within their technical duties, particularly in training junior airmen and supervising their work."​

Ironic that we are now expected to do all the administrative work and station duties and the above with a relative (compared to all other TG's) reduction in pay!​

It's all gone upside fcuking down!! ​

 

[BillyBunter]

Well its all down to people that have no courage top make whats better for there friends. thast where this conversation ends

 

[Geeza]

Well its all down to people that have no courage top make whats better for there friends. thast where this conversation ends

Not surprising as you appear to be talking nonsense again.DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[Bucc Boy]

Well its all down to people that have no courage top make whats better for there friends. thast where this conversation ends

BillyB, I consider myself reasonably fluent in the English language, written and spoken. I can only assume this is some form of written Scottish!

Care to translate when you have sobered up a bit?

 

[Geeza]

Does anybody know the definitive reason or reasons why the Admin/tech duel promotion routes were abolished? Personally I think that a highly skilled, qualified and motivated technician workforce had become an expensive luxury in the eyes of the hierarchy. The Aircraft Eng Trades Review of the 1980's sought to marginalise the role of the aircraft techie, which turned out to be a recruiting disaster, now the trend seems to be continuiing with the AMM system. What I'd like to know is how the armourers have managed to retain some semblance of a DE system while the rest of the aircraft trades are joining as mechs with reserved rights to tech and expecting the usual crop of GCSE's. An utter disgrace!

 

[BillyBunter]

sorry Bucc Boy and Geeza its my love of the evil whisky that makes these conversations so difficult to understand. I know what I want to say but its brain/keyboard interface that gets mixed up, my fingers type pish. If i have made your xmas bad or made this post terrible then I do apoligise. I do admit I have no idea what I meant in my post but I guess it was related to the people of the grand top that make us do what we have turned into.

 

[AMM]

I am an AMM as the name suggests.

I was dissapointed to say the leasts to see somebody slagging us off. I appreciate that there are some complete oxygen thiving AMMs but surely it was the same when you all joined up!?! And yes we do pull our weight! Iv done 2 tours of Iraq this year which is a lot more than many that are "downgraded" (but thats another issue)

Also the tech pay issue... It really frustrates me that I joined up, did an initial 6months line training, then 2 years "work experience" on a Sqn then still have a 14/15 month FT course to complete before I can get the higher pay band. The way I look at it, if I c*ck up my job potentially an aircraft could crash. Surely all the training and responsibility put on us deserves more than somebody who has done a few weeks training and sorts out admin issues!?

:0

 

[Bucc Boy]

I am an AMM as the name suggests.

I was dissapointed to say the leasts to see somebody slagging us off. I appreciate that there are some complete oxygen thiving AMMs but surely it was the same when you all joined up!?! And yes we do pull our weight! Iv done 2 tours of Iraq this year which is a lot more than many that are "downgraded" (but thats another issue)

Also the tech pay issue... It really frustrates me that I joined up, did an initial 6months line training, then 2 years "work experience" on a Sqn then still have a 14/15 month FT course to complete before I can get the higher pay band. The way I look at it, if I c*ck up my job potentially an aircraft could crash. Surely all the training and responsibility put on us deserves more than somebody who has done a few weeks training and sorts out admin issues!?

:0

AMM, you harbour some very valid points. Not one of which I would disagree with. Maybe there isn't a lot of difference between the AMM's of today and the old style Mech's of yesteryear.
The final part of your post, which I have highlighted, really is the #1 issue for all AMM's at the moment. If you feel like your are undervalued and basically being used and abused, then what expectations of loyalty can the RAF expect from you?
I suggest, very little. I have always believed that you get out what you put in, and the RAF is, unfortunately for them, about to find out that they, maybe, haven't put 'enough in' to making our AMM's feel valued!!

 

[vinnyvx2]

If I remember correctly JSJET use the HAY job evaluation method to determine what to pay people. The link below provides more detail of what it entails if you want to understand the reasoning behind the decision to move most of TG17 to the higher pay band.

http://www.bbk.ac.uk/jobevaluation/evaluation

 

[Bucc Boy]

If I remember correctly JSJET use the HAY job evaluation method to determine what to pay people. The link below provides more detail of what it entails if you want to understand the reasoning behind the decision to move most of TG17 to the higher pay band.

http://www.bbk.ac.uk/jobevaluation/evaluation

You have just posted the the best most confusing bit of infomation I have ever seen. Either that or you are just taking the ****!

I read the link and your statement of, 'if you want to understand the reasoning behind the decision to move most of TG17 to the higher pay band', leaves me more baffled than ever!

 

[Sospan]

Right then without trade bashing can somebody with a good knowledge of TG17 SNCO duties please give a rating from 0-10 for the following attributes as declared by vinnyvx2

1. Know – How

The level of knowledge, skill and experience (gained through job experience, education and training), which are required to perform the job successfully. This is commensurate with the scale and complexity of the job outcomes (accountability).

2. Problem Solving

The complexity of thinking required, both in the type of problems come across and the extent to which the jobholder has precedent and/or assistance in solving them (applying their Know – How).

3. Accountability

The impact the job has on the organization (i.e. the end result) and the extent to which the jobholder acts autonomously in achieving this.

 

[CodeMonkey]

If I remember correctly JSJET use the HAY job evaluation method to determine what to pay people. The link below provides more detail of what it entails if you want to understand the reasoning behind the decision to move most of TG17 to the higher pay band.

http://www.bbk.ac.uk/jobevaluation/evaluation

No offence but IMHO this does not help the case for TG17 going to the higher payband at all. It just demonstrates that the job evaluators made a mistake. If they truly followed the method you posted then how on earth could they justify the move.

 

[muttywhitedog]

No offence but IMHO this does not help the case for TG17 going to the higher payband at all.

Fortunately, your opinion doesnt count, and it was someone whose job it is to fully understand these type of things that undertook the review, not a handful of disgruntled technicians who still think the money paid to TG17 NCOs is coming directly from their pockets.

No offence, but I'm sure someone will still take umbridge.

 

[Sospan]

Fortunately, your opinion doesnt count, and it was someone whose job it is to fully understand these type of things that undertook the review, not a handful of disgruntled technicians who still think the money paid to TG17 NCOs is coming directly from their pockets.

No offence, but I'm sure someone will still take umbridge.

I beg to differ!

 

[rest have risen above me]

Fortunately, your opinion doesnt count, and it was someone whose job it is to fully understand these type of things that undertook the review, not a handful of disgruntled technicians who still think the money paid to TG17 NCOs is coming directly from their pockets.

No offence, but I'm sure someone will still take umbridge.

Why is it some academics job to scrutinize my job? And why should I accept it? As per usual TG17 are saying we're worth more than we were paid and that's as may be but the thread is about a pay rise fore a trade group that has some of the most responsible jobs in the Air Force in reference to it's primary task. The person in this Air Force that makes the most Flight Safety critical decisions everyday is one of the lowest paid. The LAC/SAC AMM is given the responsibility of checking every aircraft before it flies and has the priviledge of being allowed to put his name to it so there's someone to hang (Not always legal wise but a sig in the wrong place will kill a career dead). Now forgive me for having a bit of common sense and only a bit of academic experience but surely this job is more responsible than SAC Cook/SAC Clerk/SAC Steward. TG1 is losing people at certain pinch points at an alarming rate and despite warning after warning the ivory towers are ignoring it, the people they are expecting to replace these personell are already feeling undervalued and messed around and are starting to leave as well.
Now MWD get back in your kennel, TG17 would take umbridge if Street sweepers were made up to the same pay band. Now if the techies want to moan let us. And before you say anything about TG17 being really hard done to with OOA etc thank SAC welsh lass off CH5 for making you look really good ..honest

 

[tommo9999]

Why is it some academics job to scrutinize my job? And why should I accept it? As per usual TG17 are saying we're worth more than we were paid and that's as may be but the thread is about a pay rise fore a trade group that has some of the most responsible jobs in the Air Force in reference to it's primary task. The person in this Air Force that makes the most Flight Safety critical decisions everyday is one of the lowest paid. The LAC/SAC AMM is given the responsibility of checking every aircraft before it flies and has the priviledge of being allowed to put his name to it so there's someone to hang (Not always legal wise but a sig in the wrong place will kill a career dead). Now forgive me for having a bit of common sense and only a bit of academic experience but surely this job is more responsible than SAC Cook/SAC Clerk/SAC Steward. TG1 is losing people at certain pinch points at an alarming rate and despite warning after warning the ivory towers are ignoring it, the people they are expecting to replace these personell are already feeling undervalued and messed around and are starting to leave as well.
Now MWD get back in your kennel, TG17 would take umbridge if Street sweepers were made up to the same pay band. Now if the techies want to moan let us. And before you say anything about TG17 being really hard done to with OOA etc thank SAC welsh lass off CH5 for making you look really good ..honest

SAC TG 17 will remain on the lower pay band.

 

[rest have risen above me]

SAC TG 17 will remain on the lower pay band.

I know but the point was that the AMM is making approx 100 flight safety checks/decisions per servicing and getting paid the same as the quoted trades. How does an academic justify this with some system of points that seems to ignore responsibility?

 

[Sospan]

I know but the point was that the AMM is making approx 100 flight safety checks/decisions per servicing and getting paid the same as the quoted trades. How does an academic justify this with some system of points that seems to ignore responsibility?

Like TG17 keep on bumping their gums about SAC AMM's and SAC Clerks obviously match each other in:-

1. Know – How

The level of knowledge, skill and experience (gained through job experience, education and training), which are required to perform the job successfully. This is commensurate with the scale and complexity of the job outcomes (accountability).

2. Problem Solving

The complexity of thinking required, both in the type of problems come across and the extent to which the jobholder has precedent and/or assistance in solving them (applying their Know – How).

3. Accountability

The impact the job has on the organization (i.e. the end result) and the extent to which the jobholder acts autonomously in achieving this.

 

[tommo9999]

I know but the point was that the AMM is making approx 100 flight safety checks/decisions per servicing and getting paid the same as the quoted trades. How does an academic justify this with some system of points that seems to ignore responsibility?

Fully understand all that and as I've said on the numerous threads on this subject, I am a supporter of certain technical trades receiving more cash. But if the SAC Clerk is on the lower pay band, there is nowhere lower left to go. In answer to your specific question, whilst responsibility is a factor in the deliberations of the JSJET, it is not the only factor which influences their decision (To the best of my knowledge). When I joined up, it was just accepted that some trades were paid more than me and I lived with it, even if it wound me up that some trades got techie pay (Musician for example). That still stands true for me today; If aircraft techies were paid more than me then I would understand it and more importantly, live with it. That said I do believe TG17 has taken a significant hammering in the past few years and that we did deserve more money for what we do now. However, the current system only allows for us to move onto the higher pay band. That is the problem in a nutshell for me - the current pay system is at fault, not TG17.

 

[rest have risen above me]

the current pay system is at fault, not TG17.

And who sorts out the pay?..a bit like the clothing store stackers having all the gucci kit...mmmmmDT_Xtremez_31: lol

In seriousness I in NO way want anyone to take a pay cut. I really feel that AMMs have been shafted in a big way. And you are correct that it's the pay system but I've moaned at the official channels at least on here I get to rant as well