Allowance review inbound...

[RAF Bird]

Sometimes, I really despair.

What point are you trying to make with that statement? I expected better from you there RAFBird.


TW

Ha ha sorry mate but in my defence I'm a tired little birdy today....

I dont think many civvies would have no sympathy for us because alot of them wouldn't thank you for our jobs (which is what I meant that we all have the oppertunity to try to join up). I dont have one civvy friend from home that I know of who would want my job and all that goes with it. They'd rather be earning what they do coming home every night to their hubby's/boyfriends and kids. We've had this discussion many times. Not one of them understands how I can stay in after having my little boy. Sorry it has gone off on a bit of a tangent but it's been a long hard week!

 

[OK..Igiveup]

missed out a few

missed out a few

Right not read the whole thread, but I think the point is the tripple whammy here. No pay rises for 2 years, fair enough we need to do our bit, although it will mean smaller pensions, then the pensions rpi/ cpi hit. Another wedge taken away and now the already fairly mean allowances package cut despite inflation and VAT going up.

Is Harry staish ever going to be 9 miles away in SFA? Will it matter as they get their own car?

We now go on a long course and have to pay food, pay for a second TV licence(unless you in the mess and can watch in the lounge!) , pay over the odds for laundry (unless you in the mess), not get enough money to cover a trip home at the weekend and nowhere for the wife and kids to see you at the weekend unless they happy to share a 4 man room with your course buddies (unless you're in the mess and can book a room, nothing to cover the cost of a call the family. Expensive internet access, unless you use the free wifi in the mess......

See where I am going here? Yes the poor will be hit hardest!


SFA near camp so HTD wont effect me day to day, but I know a few who make a few quid sharing lifts but all claiming so they may lose a few quid.

just another kick and wonder why I have stuck in for so long to get it all taken away with a few years to do!

 

[mikefar]

OK I.giveup ............I GIVE UP

OK I.giveup ............I GIVE UP

Mate I refer you to post #170 on page 17

 

[Talk Wrench]

Ha ha sorry mate but in my defence I'm a tired little birdy today....

I dont think many civvies would have no sympathy for us because alot of them wouldn't thank you for our jobs (which is what I meant that we all have the oppertunity to try to join up). I dont have one civvy friend from home that I know of who would want my job and all that goes with it. They'd rather be earning what they do coming home every night to their hubby's/boyfriends and kids. We've had this discussion many times. Not one of them understands how I can stay in after having my little boy. Sorry it has gone off on a bit of a tangent but it's been a long hard week!

Fair one. Thursday beercall perchance??DT_Xtremez_14:

The thing is, most civvies do not understand the forces full stop so allowances to them are largely irrelevant and most will not begrudge allowances paid to those who serve. Many see the forces as a deserving occupation.

In balance, how many civvies do you know who have company cars. How many civvies have company perks?

I would say lots.

Take them away and there'd be many a p1ssed off person. I think they possibly could relate to the allowances in the RAF.

I believe that most civvies are against cutbacks in allowances for the forces, but unfortunately, cutbacks have been made.

TW

 

[busby1971]

**** it is

**** it is

Ultimately a certain amount of money has been taken out of the pay and allowances pot so you will all be a little worse off. You all have a right to feel umbridge at this, and this year there won't be a pay rise to hide the cuts in HTD, although even with the very small rise last year my pay went down.

The really sad thing is this will hit the lowest rank hardest, LOA is paid as a proportion of pay so that isn't really an arguement, RHiP and all that but the lowest ranks should have been protected by those above, these cuts will be regressive but then again the MoD aint a charity.

I don't begrudge anybody what they earn but this needs to be spread more fairly if disquite is to be avoided.

Not going to affect me anymore but still ****es me off.

 

[muttywhitedog]

but I know a few who make a few quid sharing lifts but all claiming so they may lose a few quid.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for those who are losing out on something they may not have been entitled to in the first place.

Cue Busby to come along and make some sarcy comment about it not being my money that people may have fraudulently claimed...

 

[Joe_90]

When I was posted to Coningsby they wanted to put me at Digby so I put up a welfare case which was supported and I was housed at Coningsby. An airman who could not drive would have a stronger welfare case than I did. An airman who refused to drive would not have my sympathy.

It's not about refusing to drive, it's about refusing to buy a second car with all the tax, MOT and servicings that go with it. If the RAF are willing to help pay towards those costs then I can't see the problem. If I'm put in SFA 8 miles from camp on a patch I didn't even put on my application because it was easiest for the civilian run organisation the RAF has entrusted to look after housing I can see the problem. It suddenly costs me more to work than the guy who lives outside camp who is the same rank and trade.

Of course I could leave my wife even more isolated in her magnolia box from 0730 until 1730 every day and take our only car. As it is she leaves all her friends behind every 2 years or so and I have to deal with the depression that causes for the first three to six months. Perhaps if I make sure she's stuck in the middle of nowhere with no public transport, which is common to most SFA patches, she'll just leave me and I'll move back into the block. That'll save on all that expensive disturbance in the future.

I don't normally agree with the people that jump on you on this site for voicing your opinions TBJ, but this time you are nothing more than a JO towing the party line. In my opinion.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Of course I could leave my wife even more isolated in her magnolia box from 0730 until 1730 every day and take our only car. As it is she leaves all her friends behind every 2 years or so and I have to deal with the depression that causes for the first three to six months. Perhaps if I make sure she's stuck in the middle of nowhere with no public transport, which is common to most SFA patches, she'll just leave me and I'll move back into the block. That'll save on all that expensive disturbance in the future.

Joe, I'm not going to get into a contest with you about who's had it toughest, suffice to say that I recognise the situation you describe as a facsimile of my own domestic circumstances.

The change to HDT(Public) is harsh and was predicted to be the one to cause the most ill-feeling. I know that people at my unit are already looking at the feasibility of re-introducing a shuttle bus service and I sincerely hope they are able to make it happen. If they don't, well in the words of one of my guys who is very much effected by this, "at least I've got a couple of years to get used to the idea".

 

[mild mannered janitor]

The change to HDT(Public) is harsh and was predicted to be the one to cause the most ill-feeling. I know that people at my unit are already looking at the feasibility of re-introducing a shuttle bus service and I sincerely hope they are able to make it happen. If they don't, well in the words of one of my guys who is very much effected by this, "at least I've got a couple of years to get used to the idea".

the HTD (public) redection is what gets my back up i was put where i was told to go and i end up paying for it ! i dont want to buy a house up here and dont see why i should ( i dont want to settle here ).
the shuttle bus is a good idea but what happens when mini mmj has to go home because he is ill ? are MT going to take me to pick him up and take me home ? (do they have child seats) me and the mrs are both serving members of the forces and the thanks we get for leaving home and doing a service to our nation and going where we are told to ? give your service 22 years maybe your life and while you are there pay for it yourself !.
get used to it ? sorry if i have ranted but this has really ****ed me off

 

[busby1971]

Now now

Now now

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for those who are losing out on something they may not have been entitled to in the first place.

Cue Busby to come along and make some sarcy comment about it not being my money that people may have fraudulently claimed...

And I thought you were doing so well until then, from what I remember you are permitted to share a number of journeys per month, cannot remember the figure but I'm sure it's not fraudulent.

The marginal costs of the extra miles does not include the standing depreciation and other costs afterall.

I have refused in the past to process claims that I know and can prove to be fraudulent.

 

[justintime129]

In balance, how many civvies do you know who have company cars. How many civvies have company perks?

I would say lots.

Take them away and there'd be many a p1ssed off person. I think they possibly could relate to the allowances in the RAF.

I believe that most civvies are against cutbacks in allowances for the forces, but unfortunately, cutbacks have been made.

TW

I work in a nhs trust which as a number of secure units which pay from 50p to £2 per hour for working there. They did a staff survey and one if the questions asked was " to save the trust money would you give up your secure lead" well all the admin staff filled out the survey and said yes. A lot of people getting this secure lead didn't fill the survey in. It was only when the unions told us that there was a large percentage agreeing to do away with the extra money that all the firms where filled in. We are still waiting for the results. So if I lost this extra cash I'd be hacked off. I understand what you all most be feeling.

 

[karlosondet]

Does anyone know what the 3 tier LOA rates are going to be?

 

[muttywhitedog]

And I thought you were doing so well until then, from what I remember you are permitted to share a number of journeys per month, cannot remember the figure but I'm sure it's not fraudulent.

The marginal costs of the extra miles does not include the standing depreciation and other costs afterall.

I have refused in the past to process claims that I know and can prove to be fraudulent.

Hence I used the word may twice in my comment. I am fully aware of current regulations as I am our Unit Auditor.

 

[Martin Blank]

One of our chiefs went to the briefings today and was amazed at what some people on camp were actually claiming when it came to HTD and how much they were now whining that the distance for all is going to be incremented up to 9 miles personal contribution like those living out.
Singlies living in the block had been claiming for driving to work on a daily basis because the Sqn they work on is over a mile away from the block on the station ring road. FFS how do you get HTD for that.
Lazy fekkers.
The blocks at Valley were almost 3 miles away from SeahawK lines and 22 Sqn but I don't remember anyone ever contemplating claiming HTD
And we wonder why the rules get changed, whatever happened to shift buses?
Maybe if the RAF got some qualified contract writers we wouldn't end up paying over the odds for equipment or for equipment we've had to cancel because of some clause...
Heard today allowances savings £220 million........payment for cancelling Nimrod £220 million why do we fekking bother

 

[feckinG RANT]

On the whole, that wasnt too bad. At our briefing, there were two issues that irritated the audience:

1. The PC for HDT (Public). As we have no control over whether our SFA is outside the main gate or 9 miles down the road, how does making us pay for the privilege of working somewhere we dont want to be, and living somewhere we dont want to live fit in with the "core principles" that were behind this review. I was sat next to a fellow goater, Stig, and he is expecting his section to be innundated with taskings to run shuttle buses from dispersed SFA locations to base.

As MMJ as posted, this is totally unfair and I, for one, am not happy and I struggle to understand how this can legally be introduced. I'll explain.

A camp has several patches, one being a ten min walk, the others, six miles plus. Airman A is located within walking distance and suffers no financial penalty to get to work. Airman B has no option but to travel by other means (realistically, car) so must suffer a financial penalty. Is this fair? No, so where does the RAF stand legally on this issue?

I'm considering speaking to a solicitor as I figure the RAF is ripe for legal action on this. By 2013 I will be around 60 pound out of pocket per month, which is a considerable amount of money considering I was placed in the patch I'm in by the RAF. Very angry with this and after 20 plus years in the RAF they can kiss my swingers!

 

[I`m Ron Burgundy?]

Fair one. Thursday beercall perchance??DT_Xtremez_14:

The thing is, most civvies do not understand the forces full stop so allowances to them are largely irrelevant and most will not begrudge allowances paid to those who serve. Many see the forces as a deserving occupation.

In balance, how many civvies do you know who have company cars. How many civvies have company perks?

I would say lots.

Take them away and there'd be many a p1ssed off person. I think they possibly could relate to the allowances in the RAF.

I believe that most civvies are against cutbacks in allowances for the forces, but unfortunately, cutbacks have been made.

TW

I know a few of my civvy friends who do moan about the amount of allowances we get...or did get, until I pointed out that while at work did they expect to lose a limb, or spend months away from family after the missus has a kid, among other things?...'fair one' was the reply.

 

[Witty_Banter]

As MMJ as posted, this is totally unfair and I, for one, am not happy and I struggle to understand how this can legally be introduced. I'll explain.

A camp has several patches, one being a ten min walk, the others, six miles plus. Airman A is located within walking distance and suffers no financial penalty to get to work. Airman B has no option but to travel by other means (realistically, car) so must suffer a financial penalty. Is this fair? No, so where does the RAF stand legally on this issue?

I'm considering speaking to a solicitor as I figure the RAF is ripe for legal action on this. By 2013 I will be around 60 pound out of pocket per month, which is a considerable amount of money considering I was placed in the patch I'm in by the RAF. Very angry with this and after 20 plus years in the RAF they can kiss my swingers!

Whilst I completely agree with you that it's not at all fair, I think you'll have one hell of a job landing the blame for SFA allocation at the RAF's feet. DE are responsible for the allocation of MQs, and therefore I doubt that the RAF could be tied in to any blame. Barrack blocks, on the other hand, would come under the juristiction of the RAF (I think, dunno because it's civvies that control them and I haven't lived in one for 10 years). Good example is the current issues with RAF Brampton and RAF Wyton, with personnel living in one and working in another.

 

[tommo9999]

yes I get it.... What has what someone is allowed to claim got anything to do with what they earn? If you feel that bad for the poor Junior ranks I'll give you my bank account details and you can give me some of your rock star wages every month!!!

If you read my post again, and carefully this time, you will see that I said income. Not earnings like you intimate, income. I'll try to make it really, really simple for you:

Take £100 from the income of a SAC.

Take £100 from the income of a Wg Cdr.

The proportionate effect of the reduction (£100 from approx £1500 and £100 from £3000 for example) on the SAC is worse. Do you get it now?

As I also said it depends on the definition of fairness. The reference to rock star wages is meaningless and infantile. Grow up.

 

[Climebear]

The really sad thing is this will hit the lowest rank hardest, LOA is paid as a proportion of pay so that isn't really an arguement, RHiP and all that but the lowest ranks should have been protected by those above, these cuts will be regressive but then again the MoD aint a charity.

LOA is not paid as a proportion of pay. It is calculated as a set rate that is, currently, paid at cpl and flt lt. Other ranks are paid an amount proportionate to this single rate. So if, say, a cpl/flt lt rate was £10 per day, an SAC/fg off would receive £9; a sgt would receive £11; a FS/sqn ldr would receive £12; a wg cdr would receive £14...

Under the new system cpl and below and fg off and below would receive £10; sgt-WO and flt lt-sqn ldr would receive £11; wg cdr and above would receive £12.

That said, the formula used to calculate the LOA rates are changing too - for the worse. So, with a hypothetical 50% cut in the base rate an SAC or fg off would loose £4; a cpl £5; a flt lt £4.50; a sgt £5.50; a FS/sqn ldr £6.50; a wg cdr would loose £8.00 a day.

 

[The Enduring Sarge]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/8272119/MoD-breaches-Military-Covenant-with-250-million-allowance-cuts.html

Might get some sympathy from the civviies. Haven't seen the Sun version yet.