Trade Group 1 Pay Rise

[soldierb]

TG! pay issues

TG! pay issues

I mentioned earlier about TG1 remustering. It has always been said "you can't remuster down".....
What does down actually mean these days. We are all getting paid the same more or less so is remustering to Admin really going down? It can't be if we are getting paid the same.
Mention the phrase"equal opportunities" if you want to remuster and then see who stands in your way!
DT_Xtremez_44:

 

[bombdasand]

Its even advertised on the site the adminers get the same pay, and check out the entry requirement difference!

ADMINER

Job description: Provide a full administrative support service to RAF personnel


Pay after one year: 16,675
Joining age: 16 – 29
Category: Airmen/airwomen
Usual service: 9 years
Open to: men or women

Similar civilian jobs:

• Personnel/human resources administrator
• Office manager
• Recruitment consultant

Qualifications you need: 2 GCSEs/SCEs at grade G/6 minimum or equivalent in English language and maths
Qualifications you can gain: Apprenticeship in business administration, including NVQ Level 2 in business administration
Nationality: Citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of Ireland since birth; or a naturalised British citizen


A TECH AV

Job description: Maintain all electrical and electronic equipment on aircraft


Pay after one year: £16,675
Joining age: 16 &?dash; 29
Category: Airmen/airwomen
Usual service: 9 years
Open to: men or women

Similar civilian jobs:

• Aircraft maintenance
• Aircraft manufacturing

Qualifications you need: 3 GCSEs/SCEs at Grade C/3 minimum or equivalent in English language, maths and an approved science/technology-based subject
Qualifications you can gain: City & Guilds Certificate in Aeronautical Engineering Level 3; Advanced Apprenticeship in aeronautical engineering
Nationality: British citizen since birth or holder of dual British/other nationality

 

[Bucc Boy]

Not many threads literally make the hairs on the back of my neck stick up in anger………but this is one.

Every time I read the latest collection of posts I think, ‘is this actually filtering through to the people who need to see it or what!?’

Undervalued is 90% of the techies gripe. The pay, we could have lived with if it hadn’t been so ‘relatively’ reduced by the upping of everybody else’s pay, so more fool the powers that be for that one!

Undervalued. As I have mentioned in other threads but I don’t mind rephrasing it so that everyone understands and gets a grasp of our outrage!

Imagine in the officer world everyone other than the aircrew trade sponsors managed to justify the argument that the rank of Squadron Leader was no longer required and therefore from now on everybody in their trades ie Admin officers, PTI officers, Police officers etc etc would be promoted straight from Flt Lt to Wing Commander (Pay, pension and further service rights equal to the aircrew boys). Hair standing up on the back of my neck again………how long do you think it would be tolerated?

Techie trade, with C/T rank……..just get on with it and shut the fcuk up.

I really can’t believe it’s happening!

 

[RAF_Nurse!]

I sympathise with you guys (and girls)....

Since the introduction of Agenda for Change into the NHS the pay advantage we held over NHS Nursing has completely gone.

My phase 2 training was 36 months (Dip H E), then i did 1 year consolidation before starting a BSc (HONS) which has taken 7 years to complete (part-time) due to postings and OOA's. About 3/4 years ago i completed yet another Dip H E in order to specialise in the area of acute care nursing i work in.

The AFPRB has criticised the MOD for the last 4 years in its annual reports for not actively addressing the issue of pay for RAF Nurses, and Specialised one's in particular (A&E, ITU, O/Th).

I would not be happy if 'Techies' (and i consider myself a technical speciality of Nursing) had a 'higher' high pay band than me, but it'll probably happen in true 'Knee jerk' fashion, instead of considering the impact on other tradespeople and retention of the aforementioned.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

You know things are bad when even the Oakley weraing Zip up boiler suit brigade on PPRune are saying techies are under valued and it's a disgrace that we get paid the same as adminers, chefs, etc, i nearly fell off my chair. Maybe one of them will pass the news up the chain?
It's on the Pay rise thread in the Military Aircrew bit, my machine won't let me play the linky game for some reason.

 

[Vanmandan]

What is it with you "Holier than thou" techies??? You need 3 GCSE's to join as a tech (actually, you can now get in without any quals) so its hardly fecking rocket science.
Why is it that because you somehow feel that you all are the fecking be all and end all masters of the non commissioned trades that you can't stand the fact that other trade are getting a decent pay rise for once!!!
Fecking live with it and shut the feck up moaning! If you really don't like it then fecking leave.

 

[AVSNCO]

We/they are!

 

[Sospan]

What is it with you "Holier than thou" techies??? You need 3 GCSE's to join as a tech (actually, you can now get in without any quals) so its hardly fecking rocket science.
Why is it that because you somehow feel that you all are the fecking be all and end all masters of the non commissioned trades that you can't stand the fact that other trade are getting a decent pay rise for once!!!
Fecking live with it and shut the feck up moaning! If you really don't like it then fecking leave.

Actually it is, have you every studied the theory of gas turbines ?

We will not leave, but we will continue to voice our opinion of being undervalued. So anybody else thinking of telling us to man up and PVR, get a ****ing grip!!!! This Airforce needs to value and nurture the people that service its fragile and overworked airframes.

 

[Vanmandan]

Actually it is, have you every studied the theory of gas turbines ?

This Airforce needs to value and nurture the people that service its fragile and overworked airframes.

My point exactly. Do you think you are the only trade that exists and are undermanned and over worked??? Of course you do, because you are TG1.

Have I ever studied the theory of gas turbines? No. But I did join the RAF in a trade that interested me, that didn't require me to use my O-levels and A-levels but still underpays me for the job I do.

We all contribute to the overall effectiveness of the end product but some trades have been long overdue for a respectable pay rise.

 

[unruly1986]

The thing that you TG1 whingers don't realise, is that you are NOT WORKING FOR A CIVVIE COMPANY!!!

If you were, then fair enough, you would be paid more than the chefs in the canteen and the administrative staff working out your expenses etc. (BTW the Catering/Admin guys do much more than this, despite what you may think).

Is the `I get paid more than you` status over other trades all you want out of your job?

If you wanted the megabucks status over the other people in the organisation you should have worked harder at school then gone and joined a civvie company. Nobody forced you to join the RAF - you decided to.

You do an important job and maybe you are overstretched, likewise with other trades, however they crack on with it instead of moaning about pay.

 

[Sospan]

My point exactly. Do you think you are the only trade that exists and are undermanned and over worked??? Have I ever said that? Of course you do, because you are TG1.

Have I ever studied the theory of gas turbines? No. But I did join the RAF in a trade that interested me, that didn't require me to use my O-levels and A-levels but still underpays me for the job I do.

We all contribute to the overall effectiveness of the end product but some trades have been long overdue for a respectable pay rise.

I think you are missing the point here fella.

 

[Bucc Boy]

What is it with you "Holier than thou" techies??? You need 3 GCSE's to join as a tech (actually, you can now get in without any quals) so its hardly fecking rocket science.
Why is it that because you somehow feel that you all are the fecking be all and end all masters of the non commissioned trades that you can't stand the fact that other trade are getting a decent pay rise for once!!!
Fecking live with it and shut the feck up moaning! If you really don't like it then fecking leave.

Vanmandan you are a thick d1ckhead who seems to be incapable of comprehending our (techies with C/T rank) gripe.

Fcuk off to your own playground.........and die!

Oh this is your playground......then just fcuking die!

 

[Impboy]

This really is starting to get on my wick all these admin bods bashing us techies. Well done you your trade sponsor saw fit to get you on the high pay band. As mentioned before us techies are feeling very undervalued at the moment so much so that 800 engineers have left because of it even in todays economic climate.

The thing that really gets me is that none of you pen pushers are accountable for your actions. You cock up and I dont paid as much and your answer is to ring JPAC really worth you coming onto the high scale. If I cock up then I am held accountable for my actions and the RAF is a few million out of pocket with maybe a dead pilot thrown in for good measure.

We discussed this in our tea bar the other day and the general feeling amoungst us techies is that the adminers should be held to account for any duff gen you give us wether its a claim or whatever. Stop using the JPAC excuse.

 

[Weebl]

We all contribute to the overall effectiveness of the end product but some trades have been long overdue for a respectable pay rise.

I see, so your trade was overdue a payrise because you say so, but if another trade asks for one they should STFU and PVR, I see exactly where you are coming from with that well thought out and constructive argument, well done.

You do an important job and maybe you are overstretched, likewise with other trades, however they crack on with it instead of moaning about pay.

Clearly patently untrue, people complained and their trade sponsors got them deserved payrises. Just because YOU are not TG1 does not mean TG1 is not allowed to also make its concerns heard.

Really, you people who just come on threads to complain about TG1 attitudes should look a little closer to home. You should also read the thread instead of presuming you know what is being said.

 

[soldierb]

TG1 Pay

TG1 Pay

DT_Xtremez_09:This is true

Us techies could do most admin jobs with little training
We can and do on occasions do an MT drivers job
we can probably do the job of GEF and the job of a supplier

Anyone could be a PTI

None of the above could do the job of an Aircraft technician without years of training.

.

 

[Vanmandan]

Hey Bucc Boy, you must be a right laugh in the T Bar. What a prick.

soldierb, another techie who is so monstrously arrogant he can do it all.

Of course not everyone could do the job of a technician without training??? What a fecking stupid argument!!!

 

[Bucc Boy]

DT_Xtremez_09:This is true

Us techies could do most admin jobs with little training
We can and do on occasions do an MT drivers job
we can probably do the job of GEF and the job of a supplier

Anyone could be a PTI

None of the above could do the job of an Aircraft technician without years of training.

.

Big, big sigh...........Of course they couldn't. But the big kick in the teeth we are receiving is 'Why would they want to FFS'.

We are literally being laughed at by the rest of the RAF at present. The recession is scary but it's my pride that prevents me from taking out my PVR. At the moment the RAF is not the place to be as an engineer.

 

[SgtScribbly]

news just in from a mate round the corner at a secret norfolk base, they had a visit from an airship today and the news wasnt good with regard to a techie pay rise.

looks like pay2000 is going to be reviewed/studied from apr - dec this year but nothing will happen for a few years after that

any goaters at the brief ?

 

[3wheeledtechie]

The number of responses on this thread indicates its a topic that just won't die. I wonder if any management would care to put their case to the goat?

I'll put my head above the parapet and state what I believe:
1. Basic pay should not be influenced by amount of dets, frequency of OOA etc (that's what allowances are for)
2. Basic pay is not a retention tool for pinch point trades or overstretch, pay targeted bonuses for that
3. Basic pay should reflect entry requirements, length of training, complexity of training, and responsibility (level x % of trade at that rank exercising that level of responsibility)
4. Techies are throughout a number of trades, not just TG1

So in conclusion I don't actually think techies begrudge adminers more money, its more a case of where's their pay rise? As you can see from the above some technical trades would score highly, having very high entry requirements (certain medical trades spring to mind), and when it comes to technical training TG3 as was, would certainly qualify in length of training, but where TG1 scores highly, is the consistent level of responsibility at pretty much all rank levels.

As for the argument that its not a civvie company, quite correct in that personnel have to be able to carry out their military duties in addition, but when the RAF chooses to employ a much larger percentage of its people working directly alongside civilians doing the same job, and in many cases being managed by civilians, it would be naivety of the highest order to imagine that comparisons between pay and conditions will not be drawn. In fact is this not one of the very mechanisms by which the AFPRB make recommendations on service pay - by comparison with civilian equivalents? The RAF is living in a dreamworld if they do not consider they are competing with civilian companies firstly to recruit the best individuals, and secondly to retain them. No longer can they rely on the unquestioning loyalty of youngsters joining up, nor the perks of service life or a good pension at the 22yr point. Mainly because they've been shot in the foot by the MoD/government, who have done away with the last two.

 

[bombdasand]

i dont care about this thread any more, i love my job!