Trade Group 1 Pay Rise

[Sospan]

1. Does this include all ranks?
2. What is VO?
3. Im pretty sure theres more inflow than now some AMMs are now finishing their second stint at Cosford.

1 Yes
2 Volunteer outflow
3 Stats were taken from the 2007-2008 year.

 

[bombdasand]

1 Yes
2 Volunteer outflow
3 Stats were taken from the 2007-2008 year.

A TECH AV is pretty damn screwed then. Now on that information, how many avionics orientated AMMs joined up?

and another question, what percentage of AMMs bother to complete their second stint at cosford?

 

[Sospan]

A TECH AV is pretty damn screwed then. Now on that information, how many avionics orientated AMMs joined up?

and another question, what percentage of AMMs bother to complete their second stint at cosford?

If you look at the link to the Parliament statement, its not just AV's, the heavies are just as bad.

Not sure about the AAM ratios, no doubt a Tsunami controller will be along soon.

 

[bombdasand]

If you look at the link to the Parliament statement, its not just AV's, the heavies are just as bad.

Not sure about the AAM ratios, no doubt a Tsunami controller will be along soon.

hows it going to get better?

no-one including my self would recommend joining as a techie.
word gets around and no one will want to use the Air Force as an 'engineering' step.

just join as admin, thats what i'd tell anyone lol

 

[BillyBunter]

Well we are getting small amounts of AAM that have done there second stint at Tosford, probably about 4 in the last 3 months but they are all AV and not Tech and thats where we need them replacements.
Im sure the next few months will see an increase but on same note they are going to take 3-4 years to get up to speed and be able to work efficiently on there own. Guess in that time its when most people are due out (the next 5 years about 70% of our manning plan to be out of the RAF with time expiry)
Thats quite a large amount considering we looking at over 200 people.

 

[bombdasand]

Well we are getting small amounts of AAM that have done there second stint at Tosford, probably about 4 in the last 3 months but they are all AV and not Tech and thats where we need them replacements.
Im sure the next few months will see an increase but on same note they are going to take 3-4 years to get up to speed and be able to work efficiently on there own. Guess in that time its when most people are due out (the next 5 years about 70% of our manning plan to be out of the RAF with time expiry)
Thats quite a large amount considering we looking at over 200 people.

what you mean av but not tech....

 

[da i ddim]

TG1 needs to have a substantial rise in wages what would you call an airforce that cant fly it's aircraft because no one can fix them.

Plus when you take your car to get fixed how much do you pay the mechanic for an hourly rate last place i went to was £50 ( told him to p**s off though)

Even then they dont fix the car.

Tg1 need this because amm's are leaving because lets face it there is no insetsive to stay in sh*t pay for what they do. Prommotion is rubbish at the moment because some stupid orificer wanteds to re-invent the wheel and change the trades one minute its mech's/ mech tech's which worked then came the sac tech's which were rubbish now the amm's dont get me wrong there are some talented amm's but some dont know there ear hole to their arse holes.

Pilots get paid a lot of money for what they do, because we make it possible for them to fly. shineys dont

 

[BillyBunter]

Well my point is they pay pilots a higher wage because they are in a specialised job.
Working on an aircraft does not seem to be a specialist job. With over 2 years of training and possibly 10-15 courses under my belt I am not considered to be a specialist. Pilots and crew ask me questions regarding the state of there aircraft and will ask if its safe to fly, thats a pretty lot of responsability but Im not paid for that call.

Does this mean now that if something we do and the plane crashes we are not liable for our actions ? its just an interesting point but lucky enough not many accidents are down to shoddy maintenance.

Responsability and taking it has just brought on a new meaning

 

[Sospan]

Does this mean now that if something we do and the plane crashes we are not liable for our actions ? its just an interesting point but lucky enough not many accidents are down to shoddy maintenance.

Responsability and taking it has just brought on a new meaning

Off Topic
Speaking of which, does anybody know if the BOI has been completed for this?

 

[Bucc Boy]

Off Topic
Speaking of which, does anybody know if the BOI has been completed for?

Sospan, I heard on the grapevine that they were close to concluding the inquiry but were called away at the last minute……………..something of far more importance to today’s ‘Top Brass’. An SAC in PSF reported that they thought they might have misplaced a paper clip.

All equipment has been checked with appropriate supporting documentation signed by all 4 (ish) PD points. A ‘full and free’ functional check of the coffee making facility was C/O successfully but as the clip was not retrieved, an ADF (Adminers Diversion Facility) has been raised and as expected…..PSF will be shut next Wednesday afternoon while further searches are carried out. (Lol)

 

[Captain Gatso]

I thought the inquriy into that incident had been finished with. I was unfortunate enough to have been there on that day and saw the respected Tornado taxi in, minus it's back seat and canopy. Not nice at all. It was then you realise how many arses start to twitch very rapidly. 700's, maintenance logs all get put in plastic bags and taken away. That is when you realise just how criticle a techies job is. I hate to say this, it's only when when an Aircraft goes in and Aircrew get killed, that questions about maintenance come to the front. Any other time, techies are just refered to as those people that fix Aircraft. I am not suprised there are very few AMM's going through the second round of training. I have managed to put off four young lads who wanted to be Engineers in the RAF. All I had to say to them was if you want the big money go to college and get your B1 or 2 licence. None of them talked about the RAF again.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

I too was there on that tragic day. It's precisely that sort of incident that reminds people how many potential dangers there are on aircraft, especially military ones, and why well trained and experienced technicians are vital. What the RAF have done in effect is to reduce the average level of experience and training at technician and JNCO level, by cutting short training at Cosford, and trying to use on the job training to make up the shortfall, in conjunction with promoting people much quicker than in the past. Not only that, but the stresses are greater due to overstretch and reduced numbers on squadrons, not to mention multi-skilling ojt and time pressures caused by the higher operational tempo and old aircraft. Soon this will apply to Sgts as well, as those experienced and well trained SNCOs leave at their 22yr point.
The RAF policy for the new AMMs in flawed in more than one sense, as although it is true that in the future aircraft may be more reliable and require only box changers, the reality is that the RAF is stuck with the current aging fleet that require in depth fault finding, for the forseeable future. Not to mention that not putting AMMs at the top of the payscale means that the best people won't necessarily be attracted to aircraft engineering.

 

[SmokeDogg]

Shineys earn more than us!

Shineys earn more than us!

Shineys earn more than techies!! If you take 2 recruits, one an adminer and one a Aircraft techie (An AMM), and progress them both as fast as can be done through all ranks up to WO, the adminer will have made 95K more than the techie. I haven't done the maths myself but thats the word at coningsby right now. The Shiney's dont have the SAC (T) or chief tech rank to go through, and wont spend a lot of time in training and as an AMM on the lower pay band. All in all you can earn almost 100 grand more as a shiny in a full career, without ever working one night shift or leaving the office. Not to mentin admin afternoons, 3 gym sessions a week (in work time) and can go on any exped you want. After only 2 easy months of training (we do much longer Q courses!!), All for more money. Its sold to me. Think i made a mistake at the AFCO!!

 

[vim_fuego]

Shineys earn more than techies!! If you take 2 recruits, one an adminer and one a Aircraft techie (An AMM), and progress them both as fast as can be done through all ranks up to WO, the adminer will have made 95K more than the techie. I haven't done the maths myself but thats the word at coningsby right now. The Shiney's dont have the SAC (T) or chief tech rank to go through, and wont spend a lot of time in training and as an AMM on the lower pay band. All in all you can earn almost 100 grand more as a shiny in a full career, without ever working one night shift or leaving the office. Not to mentin admin afternoons, 3 gym sessions a week (in work time) and can go on any exped you want. After only 2 easy months of training (we do much longer Q courses!!), All for more money. Its sold to me. Think i made a mistake at the AFCO!!

Take a look at this

Its on E-Goat so it must be true!

 

[opsgeek]

Unruly1986 please forgive me for deceiving you into thinking I was an expert on the subject matter. I am no expert; my intent is cynicism, criticism and jest! However the trades ‘appear’ to be as follows.

Air Traffic Controller TG9 .
SNCO Fighter Controller TG12
Air Cartographer TG14
Intelligence Analyst (Imagery) TG14
Personnel Administrator TG17

I have obviously not included the trades with C/T ranks (as this was my point!). Excuse my ignorance of TG4 (yourself from your previous posts) but I can only find reference to the fact they are now TG11…….shat on big time with pay bands it would seem. As I said, no expert, but humiliation is borne from the perception of the receiving subject not the on looking observer. As you are the observer in this case, you will have to take my word for it.

Please dont tar the whole of TG9 with the controller tag cos there are loads of us FOA/M's out there that dont earn the HPB

SNCO ATC do have to complete a highly intensive 7 month course at Shawbury to 'earn' HPB' and although I dont like the ATC Filth (LOL) I take my hat off to them for doing and completing this very stressful course.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Shineys earn more than techies!! If you take 2 recruits, one an adminer and one a Aircraft techie (An AMM), and progress them both as fast as can be done through all ranks up to WO, the adminer will have made 95K more than the techie. I haven't done the maths myself but thats the word at coningsby right now. The Shiney's dont have the SAC (T) or chief tech rank to go through, and wont spend a lot of time in training and as an AMM on the lower pay band. All in all you can earn almost 100 grand more as a shiny in a full career, without ever working one night shift or leaving the office. Not to mentin admin afternoons, 3 gym sessions a week (in work time) and can go on any exped you want. After only 2 easy months of training (we do much longer Q courses!!), All for more money. Its sold to me. Think i made a mistake at the AFCO!!

And dont forget as well that the shineys will get to go away on 4 month deployments every two to three years, thus increasing their earnings with all that Op Allowance and LSA, as opposed to a member of TG1 or 2, where the DWR turnround times are mainly in double figure years, unless you are on an operational sqn.

TG17 need that extra money to pay for their divorce settlements due to how many times they go away on OOA deployments!

 

[Webbo]

And dont forget as well that the shineys will get to go away on 4 month deployments every two to three years, thus increasing their earnings with all that Op Allowance and LSA, as opposed to a member of TG1 or 2, where the DWR turnround times are mainly in double figure years, unless you are on an operational sqn.

TG17 need that extra money to pay for their divorce settlements due to how many times they go away on OOA deployments!

This is not, and never was a TG1 v TG? issue. I asked the question to the floor after some info I recieved off one of my Lineys.

So is there any more info out there?

The divorce rate is not down to OOA turnround time but wifes getting some HLC while their husbands are OOA.

 

[wgaf]

And dont forget as well that the shineys will get to go away on 4 month deployments every two to three years, thus increasing their earnings with all that Op Allowance and LSA, as opposed to a member of TG1 or 2, where the DWR turnround times are mainly in double figure years, unless you are on an operational sqn.

TG17 need that extra money to pay for their divorce settlements due to how many times they go away on OOA deployments!

Are you winding people up or just on drugs? Thats the biggest load of sh1t I've read on the goat in a long, long time! As far as I can see the vast majority of TG 17 just sit on their fat @rses in psf pontificating on how important they are.
Get a fukking grip you retard.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Are you winding people up or just on drugs? Thats the biggest load of sh1t I've read on the goat in a long, long time! As far as I can see the vast majority of TG 17 just sit on their fat @rses in psf pontificating on how important they are.
Get a fukking grip you retard.

Well, thanks for your generous comments!

Now, I suggest you check the latest Chf Clk bulletin for DWR turn-round times. I dont have it to hand but it was something along the lines of:

TG17 Sgt - 24 to 30 months

Mechanical Sgt (Not on Sqns) - 10 to 18 Years.

So, for those TG1 personnel who do bay, followed by Instructing, followed by Bay, followed by CIO (Yes, there are some!) will just about reach the top of their DWR list by the end of that, whilst going home to their familes each night.

Meanwhile, the shiney who is deployable (Which appears to be a dwindling bunch) will do either 4 or 5 OOAs in the same time.

Now before you flash, check the bit in bold. I note you are at Lyneham so you probably have some involvement with Hercs and do some time away. However, you have a choice. You can go 2nd line/instructing/CIO etc and get yourself some well-deserved family stability. I see this on a regular basis as blokes on my sqn get themselves a 2nd line/OCU job once they've accrued a credit, safe in the knowledge that they'll not be touched for an OOA for a very long time.

TG17 dont have that luxury. I have to continually deploy with the sqn, accruing a credit every year or so just to ensure I dont get pinged for a 4 month OOA. My last credit was Jun 07, and in Sep 08 I got an e-mail from the poster saying if I didnt get another credit I would be away in Oct 09 - a grand total of 27 months! Needless to say I've now got my credit and am "safe" for another two years.

 

[Downsizer]

Well, thanks for your generous comments!

Now, I suggest you check the latest Chf Clk bulletin for DWR turn-round times. I dont have it to hand but it was something along the lines of:

TG17 Sgt - 24 to 30 months

Mechanical Sgt (Not on Sqns) - 10 to 18 Years.

So, for those TG1 personnel who do bay, followed by Instructing, followed by Bay, followed by CIO (Yes, there are some!) will just about reach the top of their DWR list by the end of that, whilst going home to their familes each night.

Meanwhile, the shiney who is deployable (Which appears to be a dwindling bunch) will do either 4 or 5 OOAs in the same time.

Now before you flash, check the bit in bold. I note you are at Lyneham so you probably have some involvement with Hercs and do some time away. However, you have a choice. You can go 2nd line/instructing/CIO etc and get yourself some well-deserved family stability. I see this on a regular basis as blokes on my sqn get themselves a 2nd line/OCU job once they've accrued a credit, safe in the knowledge that they'll not be touched for an OOA for a very long time.

TG17 dont have that luxury. I have to continually deploy with the sqn, accruing a credit every year or so just to ensure I dont get pinged for a 4 month OOA. My last credit was Jun 07, and in Sep 08 I got an e-mail from the poster saying if I didnt get another credit I would be away in Oct 09 - a grand total of 27 months! Needless to say I've now got my credit and am "safe" for another two years.

There ain't many second line posts left dude, so to use that as an example of DWR turn rounds is a cheap shot, very few people in that situ...give it a few more years and there won't be any TG1 2nd line slots...