Trade Group 1 Pay Rise

[rest have risen above me]

Well, thanks for your generous comments!

Now, I suggest you check the latest Chf Clk bulletin for DWR turn-round times. I dont have it to hand but it was something along the lines of:

TG17 Sgt - 24 to 30 months
Mechanical Sgt (Not on Sqns) - 10 to 18 Years.

So, for those TG1 personnel who do bay, followed by Instructing, followed by Bay, followed by CIO (Yes, there are some!) will just about reach the top of their DWR list by the end of that, whilst going home to their familes each night.

Meanwhile, the shiney who is deployable (Which appears to be a dwindling bunch) will do either 4 or 5 OOAs in the same time.

Now before you flash, check the bit in bold. I note you are at Lyneham so you probably have some involvement with Hercs and do some time away. However, you have a choice. You can go 2nd line/instructing/CIO etc and get yourself some well-deserved family stability. I see this on a regular basis as blokes on my sqn get themselves a 2nd line/OCU job once they've accrued a credit, safe in the knowledge that they'll not be touched for an OOA for a very long time.
TG17 dont have that luxury. I have to continually deploy with the sqn, accruing a credit every year or so just to ensure I dont get pinged for a 4 month OOA. My last credit was Jun 07, and in Sep 08 I got an e-mail from the poster saying if I didnt get another credit I would be away in Oct 09 - a grand total of 27 months! Needless to say I've now got my credit and am "safe" for another two years.

I didn't think it worked like that.
My understanding is that once you've got your days up you just stay at the sameplace on the list until your get out of jail card runs out. So said individuals aren't safe for that long at all.

And as a side an out of area for a shiney is a little different from a liney an AC office at Bastion is the same as an office in Lyneham the pan at bastion is most definitely not the same as the pan at Lyneham.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Negative. You get your credit and go to the bottom of the list.

So if you are TG1, on a herc sqn and want to spend the next goodness knows how many years at home, get yourself on 2nd line, followed by a 5 yr instructor tour, followed by 5 yrs at an IPT at somewhere like Wyton.

Yes, some of your fellow tradesmen do it!

 

[SmokeDogg]

This is not, and never was a TG1 v TG? issue. I asked the question to the floor after some info I recieved off one of my Lineys.

So is there any more info out there?

The divorce rate is not down to OOA turnround time but wifes getting some HLC while their husbands are OOA.

OK, sorry bout shiny bashing on ya thread. I was at the last AOC brief at coningsby and as uasual with these briefs us TG1s dominate the talk with pay complaints!!! The AOC himself, said to the room full of JRs and CPL's from all around station, that as it stands, TG1 will 'NOT' ( ) be getting a pay rise above the current HPB (brief held sometime JAN 09). He then spoke (losely) about bringing all trades to the HPB and not having different pay bands, everyones pay'd the same. He did however say that pay 2000 was devised on a 10 year working life, and all pay and trade money issues will be revied in the next version of Pay 2000 when were all earning the same. He gave the same brief later that day in the SNCO's mess. So it could be few years yet!!

A month after that the armed forces pay review body came round camp looking at what each trade does (They only visited coningsby apparantly). And guess where the only place they went to see techies was..... QRA!!! all they saw of aircraft techies was 8 people sat in lazy boys watching films!! Should have joined a squadron for a night shift!! Bet PSF was all action when they went there... Im doing it again!

 

[Downsizer]

So if you are TG1, on a herc sqn and want to spend the next goodness knows how many years at home, get yourself on 2nd line, followed by a 5 yr instructor tour, followed by 5 yrs at an IPT at somewhere like Wyton.

Which part of these posts are getting rarer and rarer do you not understand?

 

[chumpzilla]

An answer please...?!

An answer please...?!

So, after much complaining, can we get a definitive answer as to why Tg1 should have a pay rise? And what if they are out of trade? For instance, an RTS instructor, basic trade training instructor, working in an AFCO, on a non deployable unit working in a bay or something (sorry, I don't know a great deal about the non-liney/sqn stuff for a/c boys)? Do they deserve an extra bit of cash while the low pay band geezer next to them gets the same LOW PAY BAND!? Would it be deployable unit specific? If so, being on TCW, i'd want a bit of extra wonga too as I spent 6 months in sandy places last year, and 3 months on exercises/courses. Didn't complaion once or hold my hand out like Oliver asking, "Please sir, can I have some more...!?"

Looking forward to hearing half hearted arguements, and comment about trying harder in school etc.

P.S, I'm ex Tg3, so therefore a Techie by trade. So I did try hard at school and on the aptitude test!DT_Xtremez_23:DT_Xtremez_16:

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

I thought the Op Allowance was there to take care of people who delpoy, not basic pay! Allong with LSSA or whatever the shiny's are calling it this week to justify their wage.
Or has being an engineer for 20+ years in an Air Force that increasingly seems to want to get all the experienced guys to leave blinkered me.
As it happens i am also out of trade, not by choice i got it on promotion, why should i be financially worse off cos the drafter had a post to fill Chumpzilla? I'd rather have a spanner in my hand and be up to my elbows in fuel and oil but instead i'm warmiming an office because there was a post to fill. From your last post the shiny that sits next to me in the office shouldn't get higher pay band either because she's out of trade too..... It'll never happen cos who's going to do all the non-trade jobs then knowing you'll be worse off. Also isn't doing guard being out of trade too, there's another way of saving a weeks worth of money and again when you get put on a course.
I can see a give them to the sick and lame post coming now!
I could keep going but it's pointless, techies are ****ed off and everyone else is having a laugh about it. We all know why historically we were in the higher pay band, that hasn't changed (more work with less people has) but now everyone is getting more and we just sit where we were, thats whats got us hacked off.
I await the incoming with bated breath......DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[MeRlIn HaTeR]

And what if they are out of trade? For instance, an RTS instructor, basic trade training instructor, working in an AFCO, on a non deployable unit working in a bay or something (sorry, I don't know a great deal about the non-liney/sqn stuff for a/c boys)?

Why should people out of trade be punished? It is the same as Aircrew, they get flying pay even if posted to a staff or liaison tour. How do you think the RAF would fill any out of trade posts if it cost you money?

When there is a pay review of a trade they examine it as a whole, I'm sure that not one single trade in the entire RAF can justify 100% of it being on the Higher Pay Band (Yes, I do include TG1 in this).

Now when you come to bays and second line they are still signing legal documents to say that the operators can trust it with there lives, if it goes wrong they then have to face the consequences (which may included prosecution).

 

[chumpzilla]

The original question was to justify the WHOLE OF TRADE GROUP 1 getting a super dooper new pay scale just for them! So, you sign a legal document in the 700 series? Funny that how I have the same legal responsibilities as a Tg4 person! Do I deserve extra pay? The (valid) point I was trying to make was, if Tg1 got paid a different pay scale to the rest of the Air Force and the Armed Forces for that matter, then how could they justify it? Everyone does guard, you narrow minded fool! It is out of trade, but it is a duty nevertheless!

Honestly, I was trying to ask a fair question as to why you lot deserve more, and as yet, I haven't heard a single reasonable argument as to why!

So you were posted to some kind of job outside the trade? Would you deserve the same new pay level as someone working the line? That again, is a selfish attitude from a bunch of guys who when asked "why do you think you are better than anyone else?" i get the response "because we are!" Real mature attitude to everyone else in the Forces! Tw@!

 

[monobrow]

Honestly, I was trying to ask a fair question as to why you lot deserve more, and as yet, I haven't heard a single reasonable argument as to why!

May I just refer you to another thread on here -> http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=339679

The sentance in bold in that quote says it all.

 

[chumpzilla]

For instance, an RTS instructor, basic trade training instructor, working in an AFCO, on a non deployable unit working in a bay or something (sorry, I don't know a great deal about the non-liney/sqn stuff for a/c boys)?

Right, to clarify! If Tg1 got a new pay band, Yeah! Then how would that be fair if they dodged all the Sqn duties and bounced from desk job to AFCO to RTS to teaching JMLC/IMLC and kept hold of their extra wedge while someone in say Tg 4, who is also a technician by trade (albeit a plastic one, which i'll admit to, but that's a different matter!) gets the "middle" pay band and follows the same route? I say again, JUSTIFY YOUR PAY WHINGE!

 

[MeRlIn HaTeR]

The Nurses have received there new pay scale due to the direct comparison to their NHS colleagues (Quite rightly too).

Now take a variety of Tg1 jobs, we work alongside civvies who get paid more, in fact people are leaving the RAF and getting a job in the very same hanger on more money!

The main problem Tg1 has and why you hear all the moaning is we haven't had a trade pay review since before pay 2000.

Honestly we would not mind even if stewards were higher payband as long as we were given the same opportunity to put our case as every other trade in RAF.

(Chumpzilla most Tg1 call it Tecihe pay not Tg1 pay)

 

[chumpzilla]

Mono, if I was servicing an ILS or something just as important, I would have to sign a 700 series document to certify it was serviceable, which is my job (or was!) If the calibration of said equipment was out, and an a/c subsequently crashed, my name would be on the document and I would be subject to legal action. So, do ALL techies deserve an extra pay scale? Probably, but I have learned to live with being paid the same as the pencil sharpeners! The question was WHY SHOULD TG1 GET THEIR OWN PAY SCALE?

My pertinent point is highlighted!

 

[chumpzilla]

(Chumpzilla most Tg1 call it Tecihe pay not Tg1 pay)

Can I refer you to the thread title! If it was called "techie pay (including GSE, Tg4 etc!) then that would be a fair shout! But seeing as though Tg1 believe themselves to be the only techies, it kind of grates!

 

[MeRlIn HaTeR]

One of my liney's came from the Stn Cdr's briefing yesterday with some interesting quotes from the man himself, but the one that got me listening was that the heads of the MOD/RAF know they have royally fcuked up with the pay for other trades going to higher pay band, they apparently realise how disenchanted Techies gave become and to that end Stn Cdr, from what he is hearing, is that all Trade Group 1, all ranks will next pay review be recieving between 8-10% pay rise. Anyone else heard anything.

Also at SNCO's Stn Cdr brief on Monday he was saying that the new pay rise when promoted from Cpl to Sgt was going to be 8%.

Please don't turn this thread into a trade v trade pay dispute, just printing what was being mentioned during these briefings.

Thats the very first post some 40 pages ago and the meeting was purely for Tg1, other techies weren't exculded but it was a ongoing roadshow with our trade sponsor's involvement to look at Tg1 recruitment and retention.

The problem the RAF has is we as a trade are 13% undermanned and to get usable manpower ie not AMM's takes nearly 4 years! Things like FSTA et al will make things worse as civilian experience is one of the major stumbling blocks for those aircraft engineer's looking to leave.

 

[chumpzilla]

So, what you're saying is that because everyone has buggered orf and come back as a Mr and get paid more, you feel you deserve more? So when the IT world was booming, should I have got a pay rise to bring me in line? What about the BT guys who get paid callout charges and overtime? In essence I could do both of their jobs. Also, Airfields, SATCOMs, Rapier (when it was ours), Air Defence Radar, etc. You aren't the only ones with dangerous and varied jobs!

 

[chumpzilla]

Thats the very first post some 40 pages ago and the meeting was purely for Tg1, other techies weren't exculded but it was a ongoing roadshow with our trade sponsor's involvement to look at Tg1 recruitment and retention.

The problem the RAF has is we as a trade are 13% undermanned and to get usable manpower ie not AMM's takes nearly 4 years! Things like FSTA et al will make things worse as civilian experience is one of the major stumbling blocks for those aircraft engineer's looking to leave.

With regards your TS. Said person is obviously some kind of chimp because if your wages haven't been looked at in nearly 10 years, they obviously can't be bothered or they can't change anything. Pay 2000 was to (I believe, tell me if i'm wrong!) bring in line all 3 services on 1 sheet. Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier if we all got paid the high whack and just be done with it. I know that money is a driving factor for some, but if that is all you care about, for shame! I do appreciate some of my comments are a bit brash, but hey, it's my opinion. YOU made the choice hwen you entered the careers office, and it's not my fault that some TS's are a bit more tenacious than others. For example, my trade got ruined as it got amalgamated with Tg11(the guys in the Commcen normally). This happened because the TS for them was (and still is) a real Pit Bull of a man, and fair play to him, he got his trade a huge pay rise!

As for the usability of your guys, you can probably blame your TS for cocking up the SAC(T) program which churned out (IMO) more rounded guys. They were more rounded because they had a chip on both shoulders!DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[MeRlIn HaTeR]

So, what you're saying is that because everyone has buggered orf and come back as a Mr and get paid more, you feel you deserve more? So when the IT world was booming, should I have got a pay rise to bring me in line? What about the BT guys who get paid callout charges and overtime? In essence I could do both of their jobs. Also, Airfields, SATCOMs, Rapier (when it was ours), Air Defence Radar, etc. You aren't the only ones with dangerous and varied jobs!

And when you have your next pay review you can put that forwards to those who matter, something which has long been denied to Tg1!

Pay reviews are meant to be carried out around every 5 years when was our last opportunity to make our case to the independent tri-service evaluation team? It's pre pay 2000 by a long way!

Seriously mate, would you honestly have a problem with us having a pay review? Because that is all we ask, if the evaluation team see's fit to give us a supplemental Techie pay or our own pay band then good, if they say we haven't proved our case then fine. We will just have to try again at the next review.

 

[MeRlIn HaTeR]

YOU made the choice hwen you entered the careers office

So the stackers who are asking after their recent review should just man up?

No pay rises for anyone? Not even annual? We all knew what we would get paid when we joined up after all!

Plus I joined pre pay 2000 so I didn't know at the slightest did I?

A bit harsh but it is in our nature to improve our lot in life, The RAF wants us to look for ways we improve every aspect of service life Safety, rules and regulations and welfare are just some areas we are encouraged to improve.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

Hmm and i'm a narrow minded fool!!!!!!!!!!
Yes we made i choice, i made mine in 1988 and have loved newrly every minute of it. But it looks our trade sponsor has eithier been MIA or the post was gapped a decade ago. I'll say it again pay is supposed to reflect what you would get outside. Name me one company that pays it's cooks, drivers, admin and engineers exactly the same money?
Hell if you manage it, i can't and i have looked, i might sent them my Cv cos my 22 is coming up. Then again i might just stay heer and be narrow minded till my los30 runs out.

DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[chumpzilla]

And when you have your next pay review you can put that forwards to those who matter, something which has long been denied to Tg1!

Pay reviews are meant to be carried out around every 5 years when was our last opportunity to make our case to the independent tri-service evaluation team? It's pre pay 2000 by a long way!

Seriously mate, would you honestly have a problem with us having a pay review? Because that is all we ask, if the evaluation team see's fit to give us a supplemental Techie pay or our own pay band then good, if they say we haven't proved our case then fine. We will just have to try again at the next review.

I don't have an issue with a pay review, but I would find it hard to swallow if you guys were singled out and put into your own Tg1 pay spine. That would just fuel a whole load of fighting. You aren't special, so why must you walk around with a massive cocky swagger and look down your nose at people. It must be the pilots attitude rubbing off...!

I think it's disgusting that you haven't had a pay review in so long, I refer you to the Trade Sponsor comments. Maybe, now just read this (it's a novel idea!), maybe they have reviewed the money situation, sucked air through their teeth and said "We can't afford to come in line with the civvy world, what with the service pension we are giving them, and also what with the need for troops out on the ground who have substandard kit and are dying on a too regular basis". All i was saying is that, maybe your pleas aren't falling on deaf ears, but their hands are tied as Pay 2000 is pertinent to all 3 services. Next time you go out on the ground and put your life on the line, you'll remember that. Oh, wait, you don't leave the wire do you!?