PAYD Bringing ISS To Its Knees

[techie_tubby]

If I remember correctly, it used to be an offense to miss breakfast and if you subsequently felt ill you could be charged for it.

That rule got taken out of QR's because people where eating breakfast in their rooms instead of the mess. Became impossible to control or verify if people had or hadn't eaten.

 

[True Blue Jack]

But you can't have 2 bowls can you..........

Why not, as long as you pay for it?

 

[FOMz]

So what you are saying is that you have to pay more because the mess wont give you a cooked brekfast before 8am on a weekend......

Where is the logic in that?

 

[True Blue Jack]

Firstly, I am not aware that anyone has ever collapsed on duty for want of a rasher of bacon.

Secondly, I believe the cost of a Full English would still trump that of 2 bowls of cereal.

Thirdly, this whole thread is starting to sound like a whingefest that those who enjoy a cooked breakfast are no longer having that meal subsidised by those who don't. If that is the biggest thing people have to complain about...

 

[FOMz]

Or is it a whingefest by those who don't eat a cooked breakfast moaning because they subsidise those that do....

The fact is - there is meant to be choice....... And there is not.

 

[Weebl]

Secondly, I believe the cost of a Full English would still trump that of 2 bowls of cereal.

I thought the idea of PAYD was about choice? What you are suggesting is that somebody who wants a cooked breakfast before they go on duty, and would be willing to pay for it, should instead buy 2 bowls of cereal that they don't want instead, because that is sufficient to fulfill the dietary requirements, regardless of the individuals requirements.

I hope you regularly get your missus to cook you something you don't like and don't want for Lunch, that way you at least would have some basis for the holier than thou attitude.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I hope you regularly get your missus to cook you something you don't like and don't want for Lunch, that way you at least would have some basis for the holier than thou attitude.

The discussion has been about the requirement for a "proper" breakfast before undertaking a duty with such grave potential consequences as SGF rather than the need to provide choice, which is a different discussion.

At fatboy11's unit (and presumably most others) it is not possible to have a cooked breakfast before 0800 at the weekend but that was common at some units even before PAYD. However, that doesn't make it right and it is clear to me that ISS are all about profit and have no interest in providing a service. I believe that is the tack which must be taken if things are ever to change for the better.

 

[Max Reheat]

I went to Brize mess for the 1st time in a couple of months last week. The core menu choice was tuna pasta bake. Is it normal to have only one choice on the core menu? On the plus side the Cornish pasty I had was a significant improvement on the last one I had and for £1.80 I left there satisfied

 

[Climebear]

Is it normal to have only one choice on the core menu?

No, that is contrary to the JSP's requirements.

 

[Weebl]

The discussion has been about the requirement for a "proper" breakfast before undertaking a duty with such grave potential consequences as SGF rather than the need to provide choice, which is a different discussion.

It is a different discussion, as long as you feel qualified to decide what constitutes a 'proper' breakfast for somebody else.

At fatboy11's unit (and presumably most others) it is not possible to have a cooked breakfast before 0800 at the weekend but that was common at some units even before PAYD.

At some messes, not camps (at least not in my experience) If they did not do cooked till late in the Snecs mess, then you could, if you so desired, go to the Jnr Ranks. Now you cannot.

However, that doesn't make it right and it is clear to me that ISS are all about profit and have no interest in providing a service.

Why is this surprising? They are a business, their whole reason for being is to make money. That the morons who signed the contracts with them and now act amazed that they shave pence from expenses and fail to meet the contract anywhere they can get away with it is what I find laughable.

I shall say it once more. If you get rid of blue suits and replace them with outside contractors, the level of service will go down, sometimes quite drastically and the costs will then rise over time. I have said it before, quite a few times in quite a few situations but was always dismissed as a bitter old sneck who was 'resistant to change' Funny enough no matter how many times I get proved right, the next time it happens I am a whinger who is again resistant to change.

 

[fatboy11]

I shall say it once more. If you get rid of blue suits and replace them with outside contractors, the level of service will go down, sometimes quite drastically and the costs will then rise over time. I have said it before, quite a few times in quite a few situations but was always dismissed as a bitter old sneck who was 'resistant to change' Funny enough no matter how many times I get proved right, the next time it happens I am a whinger who is again resistant to change.

The most sense ive read on here in ages

 

[propersplitbrainme]

Funny enough no matter how many times I get proved right, the next time it happens I am a whinger who is again resistant to change.

That is because there is a default assumption that change is good, when something gets changed its for a reason and thou shalt not question it.
Gaining attention in the modern RAF seems to be about introducing some sort of change to get yourself noticed and then frigging the data used in any attempt to calibrate the results of the change so that the post change state always seems better.

 

[busby1971]

TBJ, completely rc attitude with that reply, one of my favourite breakfasts when I lived in at STM was Tomatoes on Toast, not exactly unhealthy (although the occasional fried Egg or bacon rasher did sneak in) bu it is cooked and set me up for the day. In the 7 years off and on that I lived in I never had cereals as they are mostly unfullfilling and you were hungry before being able to take lunch. Your preferences are yours, don't expect every one to have the same.

On the 5 occasions that I was coopted on to the Guard force a break in the mess was a happy break I guess it's less so these days.

Any way this is whinging thread about how PAYD has become the B'Stard child of a decision to give people choice having been executed as a money saving scheme by the MoD.

If the answer is ISS PAYD I'd love to know the question.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Your preferences are yours, don't expect every one to have the same.

I really don't. The implication made earlier was that by being unable to have a cooked breakfast at a weekend we were in danger of having the guard force faint with hunger while armed, which was an incongruous argument and is what I argued against. The lack of choice is a different matter.

Look back through the plethora of threads on the subject and you will see that I have never been a fan of PAYD, much less ISS, although I did caution that people should give it the benefit of the doubt before dismissing it out of hand.

The service provided by ISS in the messes is poor to say the least but no-one is going to suffer from malnutrition even by limiting themselves to the core menu 3 times a day, 7 days a week. The only way I see of improving things is to focus on the level of service provided, e.g., the idea a few pages back of keeping a photo diary of the food provided is ingenious and should be encouraged. I would also encourage everyone who lives in to understand fully just what ISS are supposed to provide with the core menu and insist on it at every meal whether or not they actually want their 2 slices of bread and butter with lunch, etc; it's all laid out in the JSP and we should use it to our advantage.

 

[busby1971]

The service provided by ISS in the messes is poor to say the least but no-one is going to suffer from malnutrition even by limiting themselves to the core menu 3 times a day, 7 days a week. The only way I see of improving things is to focus on the level of service provided, e.g., the idea a few pages back of keeping a photo diary of the food provided is ingenious and should be encouraged. I would also encourage everyone who lives in to understand fully just what ISS are supposed to provide with the core menu and insist on it at every meal whether or not they actually want their 2 slices of bread and butter with lunch, etc; it's all laid out in the JSP and we should use it to our advantage.

Why aren't the messes mandated to publicise what you are allowed to have, a simple poster at the servery should do, allowing a customer to point out the errors or omissions of ISS. There is no point arguing with the monkey on the servery as he won't know the JSPs either.

There's quite a few posts on here about people not getting what they are entitled to and not being able to prove the point when in the mess.

Don't hide behind "it's in SROs/JSP" and every one has access to this it needs to be highlighted at the point of service in plain English, you've got your commission, you know it's an issue, here's something that could improve the service, so make a difference at very little cost, you can even donate my £25 gems reward to a charity of your choice.

 

[fatboy11]

As already mentioned the JRs here in Fife dont even have a mess at the minute....shambolic doesnt come close

 

[Weebl]

As already mentioned the JRs here in Fife dont even have a mess at the minute....shambolic doesnt come close

Have a scan of JSP 315, scale 52 (it is on the internet, open source) It details what should be available based on x number of Jnr's, everything from how many shops there should be, what standard of lighting is to be used in the snooker room and how many knife racks should be in the kitchen.

If they are not meeting it (and if you have no juniors facility then you are not) then wave their own JSP in their faces.

http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?42895-PAYD...-This-is-what-you-are-entitled-to.....

 

[True Blue Jack]

Don't hide behind "it's in SROs/JSP" and every one has access to this it needs to be highlighted at the point of service in plain English, you've got your commission, you know it's an issue, here's something that could improve the service, so make a difference at very little cost, you can even donate my £25 gems reward to a charity of your choice.

I didn't realise I was hiding, I thought I was signposting. Of the 500+ JRs living in at Waddo, just for example, I'm sure there must be at least one with the initiative to take ownership of this issue; certainly they were never backward about coming forward with other issues which concerned them directly. The same must surely be true of representatives of every other mess at every other unit. Even if every living-in contributor to this thread put a notice up in their own mess, or produced a flyer to go under the doors of every room in their blocks, in-roads could be made quite quickly.

 

[fatboy11]

Whats gripped people here was the removal (ahem...Theft!) of all (incl privately owned....whether PAT tested or not) cooking implements from the blocks......the lads are living on takeaways because the CHOICE!!! has been removed. The biggest problem with our bunch of commissioned idiots......and yes that is how they are seen....is that they assume the juniors are stupid. This Air Force is fooked and im glad ill soon have no part of it DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Entropy]

Knowing what you are entitled to doesn't make much difference. At the secrect Oxfordshire base the other weekend our CPL asked the chef "Where is the 2nd core dish?" His reply was "We only have one." It wasn't the chef's fault as he was doing what ge is told but it sounds as if ISS have taken the rules into their own hands and trying to cut corners even further..